E
Executivos
New member
Hey guys let me know what you think of the tune and the recording. Any words good and bad GREATLY appreciated.
VOXVENDOR
New member
Now THAT is a cool tune....
Great Job..... Nice catchy song..... In a world of Radiohead, Pink floyd etc.. It's refreshing to hear a nice catchy pop/rock tune...
Reminds us that music isn't always gloom, and death and shit... It reminds us that it can be FUN !
Ok... Here are my Critiques...
That verse in the beginning where she says something to the effect of "My Eyes"... or whatever... she comes in a bit early... If you are using Daw, just slide the first few words of that line back a bit...
I am pretty familiar with recording pop tunes, and In a song like this, I would do about 20-40 background vocal layers.... (Im talking about during the chorus, where the backing vocals say says "Trrrryyyyy".....
EQ them, use lots of compression on them and then buss them all over to one track... Duplicate that track and spead the 2 wide..
I like the backing vocal arrangment... but it steps on the lead vocal....
I think the above method would work awesome for you...
One thing about your style of music, It's very hard to usesampled drums /drum machines for it.. and I want to say, your are pretty convincing.... Most people would think they are real drums....
I think a bigger snare sound and a bit louder on the snare would be great....
Try and find drum sounds like on that song "Basket case" by Green Day.... that snare is big....
Other than those minor things.... this song is great!
By the way, if you don't have a daw, you will have to use another method of duping the BV track.... It's possible with every system, jus have to find how it applies to your system....
Keep it up... you rock!
Great Job..... Nice catchy song..... In a world of Radiohead, Pink floyd etc.. It's refreshing to hear a nice catchy pop/rock tune...
Reminds us that music isn't always gloom, and death and shit... It reminds us that it can be FUN !
Ok... Here are my Critiques...
That verse in the beginning where she says something to the effect of "My Eyes"... or whatever... she comes in a bit early... If you are using Daw, just slide the first few words of that line back a bit...
I am pretty familiar with recording pop tunes, and In a song like this, I would do about 20-40 background vocal layers.... (Im talking about during the chorus, where the backing vocals say says "Trrrryyyyy".....
EQ them, use lots of compression on them and then buss them all over to one track... Duplicate that track and spead the 2 wide..
I like the backing vocal arrangment... but it steps on the lead vocal....
I think the above method would work awesome for you...
One thing about your style of music, It's very hard to usesampled drums /drum machines for it.. and I want to say, your are pretty convincing.... Most people would think they are real drums....
I think a bigger snare sound and a bit louder on the snare would be great....
Try and find drum sounds like on that song "Basket case" by Green Day.... that snare is big....
Other than those minor things.... this song is great!
By the way, if you don't have a daw, you will have to use another method of duping the BV track.... It's possible with every system, jus have to find how it applies to your system....
Keep it up... you rock!
wes480
New member
VOX -
what was your dead giveaway that the drums were synth? I didn't even really think about it until I read your post...becuase at the beginning they sounded real...(if not somewhat under miked/mixed for the style...as you pointed out).
Towards the end they do begin to sound more synth....esp. when you have a lot of cymbal action....but, you just said it with such authority..took me back - comments?
what was your dead giveaway that the drums were synth? I didn't even really think about it until I read your post...becuase at the beginning they sounded real...(if not somewhat under miked/mixed for the style...as you pointed out).
Towards the end they do begin to sound more synth....esp. when you have a lot of cymbal action....but, you just said it with such authority..took me back - comments?
wes480
New member
Executivos - now to you - I really like the track...have no advice for you beyond what vox said. Would you mind letting us know what mics/setup you used with this? I really like your bass sound. BTW - is it a full band, or just like 2 people for now? (just curious)
VOXVENDOR
New member
wes480 said:
Well thats sort of a long story... First of all, It's the hats that are the biggest Give away when it comes to sequenced drums.... and then the snare is the second give away....
I know a real player, and I know quantizing... I can hear it...
I have been using drum machines and sequencers daily, since I was about 13 years old, and Im to the point that I can almost tell what Drum machine was used.....(Im 26 now) The new Bif Naked Album (canadian female punk rock), has The Boss Dr-770 All over it... and It really suprised me.... You would think a major Studio and major label act would have a live drummer or a least some cool samples... but nope, her album, (minus the one single) is all Boss Dr-770....
I think it's cool, cause thats the drum machine I use.... But I try and add live hats and cymbals to make it a bit more real...
I love drum machines and sequencers.... No live drummer will ever make me happy... ok, well I can't afford Neil Peart, but you know what I mean.... I have worked with many... and I just love the synthetic perfection of a sequence... Can't change, just the way I am
I need everything to be in perfect time..... I don't mind vocals that sway a bit in pitch, but out of time drums just make me cringe...
Oh, and another dead giveaway for sampled/sequenced drums... is when some of the newbies post their first songs, it's usually ok... but the guitar and voice are almost always lacking, and sound home-recorded... But then there is this perfect rockbeat behind all the messy stuff, pumping out beautifully sampled drums...... that is a huge give away.....
(That last part doesn't apply to the song in this thread, cause I think this song is a real good mix...)
E
Executivos
New member
lol...fake drums.
Yeah I wanted to know if you could tell. That's why I didn't put anything like "do they fake drums sound real enough"
Hi -hats are the biggest problem in sequenced drums. But in this case the dead give away to me is the kick in the quiet part.
As for the snare, yeah it's a little small. I started mixing it and I thought it sounded a lot like the last new found glory record, so I just kinda went with it. I just got that sonic implants sound font kit and the drums are AMAZINGLY realistic..maple dw's and yamahas...I don't think I'd be able to tell a difference..I just finishing it building my elec drum kit with my dm5 so I can play instead of click. Variation in velocity helps a lot. I should remix it so you guys can see them.
With regards to this song, this is pretty much just a demo. It's great to write songs with protools right here, because within an hour I can go from the lyrics and an acoustic guitar to a decent sounding mix. It's a 4 piece band right now we're looking at an additional female vocalist (with a hard strong voice...should add a cool dynamic) I just recorded this song so I could teach it to the band. Fake drums won't do for a release. We'll go to another studio and track drums then come back here and re-do eveything.
It's funny I just got home from a late practice with the band and it was TERRIBLE. Anybody ever have band practices like that, where within 20 minutes you realize it's just not happening and you keep looking at the clock saying "when is this going to be over" Oh well. A good practice usually follows a bad one.
After she left from tracking vocals I realized she was a bit early on that phrase...I should have fixed it but I'm lazy hahaha. We didn't have enough time to do more backups...I tried copying the track to another one and offsetting it a bit and panning but it was too phase-E? I would like to do some more backups. Will it really take that many? I've kinda always wondered how the big guys get those incredible sounding choruses. I will try it for sure.
Lets see...specifics:
I have a pc based digi 001 protools setup.
Drums: fruity loops.
Bass- cheap ass squire jazz bass direct into a joe meek vc6q with a decent amount of compression. Then I took it into protools and used the sansamp psa1 plugin on the ampeg svt setting and gave a little more compression.
Vocals: Still wondering what a studio projects c1 sounds like? Thats it going into the meek vc6q and thats it. No eq Whatsoever. A bit of meek compressor the I used the waves c4 comp on it. I love this mic. I used to record her with my rode ntv and it sounded BAD. (great mic, not for her)
Just to finish it off...Guitar 79' les paul, pod pro mesa setting.
Thanks for the comments. I reall appreciate it. Any-mo'? Much appreciated.
Yeah I wanted to know if you could tell. That's why I didn't put anything like "do they fake drums sound real enough"
Hi -hats are the biggest problem in sequenced drums. But in this case the dead give away to me is the kick in the quiet part.
As for the snare, yeah it's a little small. I started mixing it and I thought it sounded a lot like the last new found glory record, so I just kinda went with it. I just got that sonic implants sound font kit and the drums are AMAZINGLY realistic..maple dw's and yamahas...I don't think I'd be able to tell a difference..I just finishing it building my elec drum kit with my dm5 so I can play instead of click. Variation in velocity helps a lot. I should remix it so you guys can see them.
With regards to this song, this is pretty much just a demo. It's great to write songs with protools right here, because within an hour I can go from the lyrics and an acoustic guitar to a decent sounding mix. It's a 4 piece band right now we're looking at an additional female vocalist (with a hard strong voice...should add a cool dynamic) I just recorded this song so I could teach it to the band. Fake drums won't do for a release. We'll go to another studio and track drums then come back here and re-do eveything.
It's funny I just got home from a late practice with the band and it was TERRIBLE. Anybody ever have band practices like that, where within 20 minutes you realize it's just not happening and you keep looking at the clock saying "when is this going to be over" Oh well. A good practice usually follows a bad one.
After she left from tracking vocals I realized she was a bit early on that phrase...I should have fixed it but I'm lazy
hahaha. We didn't have enough time to do more backups...I tried copying the track to another one and offsetting it a bit and panning but it was too phase-E? I would like to do some more backups. Will it really take that many? I've kinda always wondered how the big guys get those incredible sounding choruses. I will try it for sure.Lets see...specifics:
I have a pc based digi 001 protools setup.
Drums: fruity loops.
Bass- cheap ass squire jazz bass direct into a joe meek vc6q with a decent amount of compression. Then I took it into protools and used the sansamp psa1 plugin on the ampeg svt setting and gave a little more compression.
Vocals: Still wondering what a studio projects c1 sounds like? Thats it going into the meek vc6q and thats it. No eq Whatsoever. A bit of meek compressor the I used the waves c4 comp on it. I love this mic. I used to record her with my rode ntv and it sounded BAD. (great mic, not for her)
Just to finish it off...Guitar 79' les paul, pod pro mesa setting.
Thanks for the comments. I reall appreciate it. Any-mo'? Much appreciated.
wes480
New member
vox - interesting insight. appreciate it. in terms of drummers...i am the opposite..not that i don't like synth drums..i think they are cool. but, i get off on the "looseness" of a good band. to me that's what makes a band tight....like the one guys band that posts on these msgboards, Jonkan...his band "Figures from Here"...they rock. their drums arn't really loose or anything...but, the overall sound just has that imperfection watermark...i love it.
anyways...good work on your band E - good stuff going on (i love the new newfound glory record..listened to that nonstop for a few weeks when it came out...i'm not even a huge punk fan)
anyways...good work on your band E - good stuff going on (i love the new newfound glory record..listened to that nonstop for a few weeks when it came out...i'm not even a huge punk fan)
E
Executivos
New member
yeah me too. I used to work for their label (drive thru) they've stayed with us a few times when they were on tour. Very cool guys.
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can't add much to what Vox mentioned, though I'd like to second layering the "Trrryyyy" parts.
One thing I noticed is the part where the backing and lead both end on the same note and the end of the word "try." S'ok, I guess, but I'd rather have them doing different pitches instead of having the the end of the word suddenly get louder. I guess that's a performance thing, not recording.
The guitar doesn't sound overly stereo to me, other than at the beginning and the queit parts. Have you played with widening them out a bit?
I also like the verb on the vocals during the quiet part.
Now this song is gonna be stuck in my head....
One thing I noticed is the part where the backing and lead both end on the same note and the end of the word "try." S'ok, I guess, but I'd rather have them doing different pitches instead of having the the end of the word suddenly get louder. I guess that's a performance thing, not recording.
The guitar doesn't sound overly stereo to me, other than at the beginning and the queit parts. Have you played with widening them out a bit?
I also like the verb on the vocals during the quiet part.
Now this song is gonna be stuck in my head....
Leeking
New member
Re: Now THAT is a cool tune....
VOX,
would like to know more about vocal layering... to do a 20 layer, does it mean to track 20 times or copy&paste?
if track 20 times, do we keep sing the same thing or sing in different parts?
How do you usually EQ a backgroud vocal?
Thanks!
VOXVENDOR said:
VOX,
would like to know more about vocal layering... to do a 20 layer, does it mean to track 20 times or copy&paste?
if track 20 times, do we keep sing the same thing or sing in different parts?
How do you usually EQ a backgroud vocal?
Thanks!
E
Executivos
New member
I think the guitars are at like 40...(0 is middle 100 is hard r/l) I usually pan them more...somewhere around 60...I guess I could go more. Is there like a standard guitar panning technique? Everyone always says "just do what sounds right"
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I doubt there is a standard- I've heard them panned all over the place.
I think what I was hearing (having had a little while to think about it) is that you might have some stereo verbs in there somewhere that are creating a larger space than the guitars are actually filling. That makes the guitars sound more pressed into the center.
I'm not listening at the moment, so its just a thought.
I think what I was hearing (having had a little while to think about it) is that you might have some stereo verbs in there somewhere that are creating a larger space than the guitars are actually filling. That makes the guitars sound more pressed into the center.
I'm not listening at the moment, so its just a thought.
jgourd
New member
Vocal Layering
Here is how I layer the vocals on something like the short "Try" line. I use cycle recording in Nuendo and have the singer bang out the part over and over. While doing that I make notes if any of the takes are true clunkers or not. I throw away the bad takes.
Because I use Nuendo there are a few ways I can proceed. What I do is actually make seperate tracks out of all the good takes. I route them to a bus, solo that bus, get a good mix and export the whole thing to a stereo track. I then mute the original tracks and / or remove them if I have not further use for them.
Here is a short sample it is not 20 layers though, only 5.
Here is how I layer the vocals on something like the short "Try" line. I use cycle recording in Nuendo and have the singer bang out the part over and over. While doing that I make notes if any of the takes are true clunkers or not. I throw away the bad takes.
Because I use Nuendo there are a few ways I can proceed. What I do is actually make seperate tracks out of all the good takes. I route them to a bus, solo that bus, get a good mix and export the whole thing to a stereo track. I then mute the original tracks and / or remove them if I have not further use for them.
Here is a short sample it is not 20 layers though, only 5.
VOXVENDOR
New member
Leeking
Dont use cut and paste or duplicate.... It must be sang over and over the appropriate amount of times to get the proper effect..
The way I would layer is to have the singer sing the part over and over perfectly.... Track by track.... once you are up to 21 tracks, eq them and mix them and buss them over to an empty track....
Do that again and again, until you have the amount of vocals you need... then buss them ALL onto one track....
Then Duplicate the track...
Now all this is done in a new session.... I usually just import a stereo rough mix of my song as a guide into a new session, ... Do all the vocals... Heck you can do hundreds if you like.....
Then when the vocals are done.... and the are all mixed on 2 tracks... import them into your song session... since we are in the digital domain, they will perfectly lock in with your song.. worst case scenario, you might have to drag them around for a minute or two to perfectly line them up....
Oh, and eq... I like a crisp thin vocal for this... think Def Leppard's Backing vocals...... I shoot for that sound....
Alot easier to achive than people think..... I did the song im about to post in about 1 hour... (backing vocals..)...
Im going to put up an MP3... right away, with 40 layers of vocals.. done exactly this way...
I'll let you know when it's up....
Dont use cut and paste or duplicate.... It must be sang over and over the appropriate amount of times to get the proper effect..
The way I would layer is to have the singer sing the part over and over perfectly.... Track by track.... once you are up to 21 tracks, eq them and mix them and buss them over to an empty track....
Do that again and again, until you have the amount of vocals you need... then buss them ALL onto one track....
Then Duplicate the track...
Now all this is done in a new session.... I usually just import a stereo rough mix of my song as a guide into a new session, ... Do all the vocals... Heck you can do hundreds if you like.....
Then when the vocals are done.... and the are all mixed on 2 tracks... import them into your song session... since we are in the digital domain, they will perfectly lock in with your song.. worst case scenario, you might have to drag them around for a minute or two to perfectly line them up....
Oh, and eq... I like a crisp thin vocal for this... think Def Leppard's Backing vocals...... I shoot for that sound....
Alot easier to achive than people think..... I did the song im about to post in about 1 hour... (backing vocals..)...
Im going to put up an MP3... right away, with 40 layers of vocals.. done exactly this way...
I'll let you know when it's up....
VOXVENDOR
New member
Heres the link RE: my above message...
I made it a real short edit, just enough to give you an Idea of how the method Im talking about can sound..
20 Layers in the Pre-chorus and 40 layers during the chorus...
Exact method I explained...
I think it would work awesome for this Female Punk tune..(my opionion)
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/9/1246/singles.shtml
Click on "I wish you'd Never Learn" (Thats the song)
I made it a real short edit, just enough to give you an Idea of how the method Im talking about can sound..
20 Layers in the Pre-chorus and 40 layers during the chorus...
Exact method I explained...
I think it would work awesome for this Female Punk tune..(my opionion)
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/9/1246/singles.shtml
Click on "I wish you'd Never Learn" (Thats the song)
Leeking
New member
VOX
Thanks for the great tip Vox, I learned something new today...
Can you give some example on the EQ setting?
Thanks!
Thanks for the great tip Vox, I learned something new today...
Can you give some example on the EQ setting?
Thanks!
E
Executivos
New member
yeah definitely.....I'll layer some more vocals when I get a chance and perhaps re-post