Poor keyboard sound

[Zoomone]

I have never played a keyboard but bought a Casio CTK 3500 at the start of lockdown. I have been learning (slow process!) just from online videos. I am using a Zoom R8. I like the sound of the bass notes recorded but the treble sounds like a child's plastic keyboard. The tune I am learning is Pink Floyd's Great Gig in the Sky and ideally the sound I would like is a grand piano in a large hall. The keyboard sounds fine using it's own speakers or headphones.

I am using quite a lot of reverb (nothing else knowingly unless Mr Casio is adding it) but should I be not be using reverb on the keyboard at all and adding it later with Audacity which is all I have. The Zoom did come with a version of Cubase but my brain is scrambled enough with all the chord changes without opening another can of worms at the moment!

So, my question is should I be switching off reverb? Or is there something else I should be doing to improve the treble? I would like to keep to the direct connection to the R8 rather than the mics because of room noises.

I have a clip of what I mean but I'm not allowed to post it yet.

 

[gecko zzed]

How are you connecting the keyboard to the Zoom?

That might help.

The Casio doesn't have line outputs that I can see, so you are either recording the Casio via a lead from the headphone socket, or with a microphone capturing audio from the Casio's speakers.

 

[Zoomone]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I should have said. It is as you say from the headphone socket (output) on the keyboard to the zoom using 3.5mm jack plugs. It is a standard guitar lead, no gold ends or anything.

 

[rob aylestone]

If you've fathomed out how to add reverb in audacity - then this is the way to go, because once you've got a few tracks down - the amount of reverb could be too much or too little. So record dry, eq and process and then add your reverb to taste.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The keyboard is probably sending a stereo signal through the TRS headphone socket. The 1/4" (6.3mm) inputs of the R8 are almost certainly TRS balanced. The ideal way to connect them is to split the stereo output of the keyboard to a pair of mono (TS, unbalanced) 6.3mm connectors into the R8. If you use a 6.3mm TRS cable you'll have a mismatch between stereo and balanced. If you use a guitar cable you'll only be getting the left channel of the keyboard.

Hosa STP-201 Insert Cable - 1/4" TRS Male to Dual 1/4" TS Male - 3' | Sweetwater

 

[Zoomone]

That sounds interesting. Perhaps that is why the treble is so tinny and yet the bass is fine.

 

[mjbphotos]

Yes, you are only getting half of the sound by using a TS cable. You need to adapt from the stereo TRS jack to either a left and right mono, or a combined mono (there are adapters for that)

 

[ecc83]

And! The keyboard can send MIDI data via USB to a computer. This opens up a universe of software sounds to you. First stop IMHO is 'Modett's Pianoteq' download the demo and you will get some really good piano tones.

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

Yamaha, kawai and others make nice electric pianos that in the room sound great. They invariably sound dreadful when the only socket is a headphone socket. I suspect it's because they deliberately over cook left and right separation and design the headphone output to cope with the shorting out of one channel when a guitar cable is used, but usually you end up with a dreadful bassy sound or tinny sound. Make up a proper cable with the stereo l and right linked on end to the usual unbalanced mono the other, or for recording TWO mono jacks the other end. An old mixer insert cable works brilliantly by the way.

Dave's Pianoteq solution is by far the best solution. I use it in preference to all the other piano sources I have.

 

[Zoomone]

Thanks to everyone, very helpful. I'll try getting a cable. Does this sort of thing look ok or is it too cheap? I couldn't see a better quality one.

Re Rob's suggestion of recording dry, I will have a play with that, I'm such noob with recording (and a semi-luddite) I have probably only used a tenth of what the R8 can do. The midi stuff sounds fun also. I have seen the midi data used with an app for showing a graphic of what notes to play live but I didn't realise you could do more with it.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

That looks like it will get the job done. The typical use is as an "insert cable" on a mixer, so that's the term to search for.

 

[Zoomone]

I've ordered that. Won't see it for a week though. When I get it I will record the same intro and see if it improves. This is how it is now sounds now. Bass ok (to my ears anyway) but treble horrible.

Great Gig in the Sky Intro - Keyboard cover by Tintaglia | Free Listening on SoundCloud

 

[ecc83]

I've ordered that. Won't see it for a week though. When I get it I will record the same intro and see if it improves. This is how it is now sounds now. Bass ok (to my ears) but treble horrible. Great Gig in the Sky Intro - Keyboard cover by Tintaglia | Free Listening on SoundCloud

I will have a harken in a while but my ears are not good. You can download the Pianoteq trial and play it from the lappy kbd. There are also MIDI data demo files. You can buy an A to B USB cable almost anywhere, garage? Does not need to be top Q, MIDI kbd are USB 1.1. IIRC?

Dave.

 

[gecko zzed]

It's very mono sound, and it would benefit from some sustain pedal. IN the absence of that, a good spacey reverb.

 

[mjbphotos]

I've ordered that. Won't see it for a week though. When I get it I will record the same intro and see if it improves. This is how it is now sounds now. Bass ok (to my ears anyway) but treble horrible.

Great Gig in the Sky Intro - Keyboard cover by Tintaglia | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Your comment about the treble makes me think you don't have a very balanced listening environment - what are you using? I agree with comments about stereo space and sustain pedal. I've got an (older) Casio workstation keyboard (left and right line outputs), and they do put a stereo widener in the built-in sound. IF your model allows you to layer sounds, try adding two different pianos, I use the grand and classical tones layered.

 

[Zoomone]

It sounds pretty good playing it just with headphones on but it is the way it comes out when recorded that I was struggling with. I did start by using big reverb and it sounds great through headphones or the keyboards own speakers even but not very nice once recorded.

I'm using a Zoom R8 which is always fine for recording guitar so I think the problem is what happens to the signal between the keyboard and the Zoom as suggested. I found the Casio has a 'Virtual Hall' function which sounds good as well through headphones but still poor once recorded.

I have just downloaded the Pianoteq trial for a look, it looks like fun I will certainly give it a go but it looks like more than I will ever need just playing and recording for my own pleasure really.

I haven't seen any mention of layering in the manual, is that like being able to play two piano effects at the same time? I suppose I could put one piano on one track and play along with it on the other if not.

I don't understand what a balanced listening environment is? I play it back on the Zoom for a quick listen then import it to Audacity and export it as a WAV file. But it sounds the same wherever I listen to it, same on Soundcloud above, not very nice. I am hoping the new cable will help. I agree about adding stereo, I think I can do that on Audacity but I'd want the sound (and the playing!) better first. You can't polish a turd as they say!

 

[gecko zzed]

I don't understand what a balanced listening environment is?

In essence you need to be confident that your listening environment, i.e. the combination of speakers and the room in which you mix, is not fooling you. There might be resonant frequencies, or nulls, that cause you to mix in a compensating way.

I agree about adding stereo, I think I can do that on Audacity but I'd want the sound (and the playing!) better first. You can't polish a turd as they say!

I wouldn't worry too much abut the playing. The stereo will firstly have to come out of the keyboard and before it gets into Audacity, otherwise you will just have a mono signal no matter what (even if it's on a stereo track).

 

[Zoomone]

Ah, thanks I see. I was just using the headphones to listen, but even listening to the direct recording on the Zoom player or listening to the OGG file on Audacity it was the same.

0ne more question about stereo. I have ordered the Y cable. I know the keyboard is capable of stereo but it has only one headphone socket output as mantioned. The Zoom R8 has two inputs (so you can plug in two guitars or whatever). Will it now be possible to record now using the new cable?

 

[gecko zzed]

0ne more question about stereo. I have ordered the Y cable. I know the keyboard is capable of stereo but it has only one headphone socket output as mentioned. The Zoom R8 has two inputs (so you can plug in two guitars or whatever). Will it now be possible to record now using the new cable?

The headphone socket delivers a stereo signal to your headphones. It will deliver a stereo signal to the lead you are getting. The other ends of that lead go into two inputs of the Zoom. From there, in your DAW you need to set up either a stereo track on which to record, or two mono tracks, one panned left and one panned right.

 

[motterpaul]

I would say without a doubt the best way to record it is using midi. If you don't understand midi get used to it and start using it. Then you can use a large variety of keyboards from Sampletank or many other places that provide prerecorded piano samples. You will get full spectrum stereo through the midi.

If you are not ready then definitely invest in the right stereo cable and use two channels on your R8.