Please help with original tune - cassette recording in a garage

[heatmiser]

Hey,

I don't know what is going on with this one. Seemed kind of cool while tracking but the mixes have been all over the place. Moved all my crap out to the garage for the summer and find mixing more of a challenge than inside the house where the sound is more contained. But I can play louder!

This is obviously really low-budget, but I still want to do what I can to get it to sound better. Treid to dirty-up the drum machine without really distorting, but it still sounds pretty sterile, no? Guitars a bit fizzy? Bass (actually an electric guitar) rumbly yet loud?

This is one of very few originals I have tried and may not be worth the effort, but I kind of like it in a way...somewhat original at least.

Warning...there is some profanity for which I apologize in advance.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=6660028

 

[santiu]

Dude, i totally dig this. I think the synthy sterile sound of the drum machine works well for this song.

I personally think the mix sounds pretty good. Maybe lead guitar can come down a smidge. The only thing that bugged me is that some of the vamping where there isn't noodling or singing can get a bit repetitive and boring.

what did you record on?

 

[NL5]

The bass is a de-tuned guitar? I think that is the bulk of your problem. It's loud and boomy. It's drowning out everything. Can you borrow a real bass? If not, at least bring the bass down a ways, and try cutting in the 250 area.

 

[ksounds]

Hi Heat. This sounds GREAT! This was one done on the 8 track wasn't it?

I remember some of your other stuff now, kind of cake and becky, influence. Your previous stuff sounded just as good as this if I recall.

Did you supplement this with any compressors or fx? If so, what did you use? I agree with the previous post, nice mix-maybe a bit loud on the lead guitar. Good job on the bass via the electric guitar. Also, it does get a bit repetitive during the parts without vocals or lead guitar. Maybe throw in some crazy vocals thrown thru a distortion pedal, but put it kind of low and in the background, more or less as a texture (not telling you what to do with your song or anything or maybe just something to help add a little something different to those parts.I think it would help.

I like the live vibe you have, suits the style well. The mix holds together very well in all honesty.

Please post any remixes when you get a chance.

 

[santiu]

hmm... i'm not really getting the boomy drowning out sound for the bass, but I am listening on headphones (listened with my Grado SR-225, and Beyer DT770).
I think the kick drum might be a bit too boomy though.

 

[Xeries]

I like the sound of this, but I'm only listening on cans. I wouldn't change a thing. I think the bass is good enough to overpower the other tracks. It's as much a rhythm instrument as the drums. Probably does the job better

 

[heatmiser]

Cool! Thanks so much for listening and providing suggestions. This seriously helps me lot.

The only thing that bugged me is that some of the vamping where there isn't noodling or singing can get a bit repetitive and boring.

what did you record on?

Thanks Santiu - I had to google vamping ...there are a few sections without any melodic elements at all (actually none of it is very melodic), and I think you're right. I just fell in love with the rhythm guitar riff while tracking and it never occured to me that others wouldn't want to hear it ad naseum . I want to go back and add some other instrumental voices or a drum break or something - it is just tough once all 8 tracks are already filled as something has to go in order to add anything. I'm not giving up though.

I recorded this with a tascam 688 8-track cassette mixer/recorder. Top of the line in its day, but my machine is tired and keeps slowing down and speeding up - makes it hard to stay in tune.

The bass is a de-tuned guitar? I think that is the bulk of your problem. It's loud and boomy. It's drowning out everything. Can you borrow a real bass? If not, at least bring the bass down a ways, and try cutting in the 250 area.

Thank you for helping NL5 - The "bass" track is a regular guitar (a '77 fender start) tuned normally. I don't know any alternate tunings...might that help? I stuck to the low e string and eq'd the heck out of it. Maybe not so bad for what it is, but still...not all that good. I will try your suggestion although I already cut a lot of 225-250 while tracking.

Unfortunately, I don't really know anyone...let alone a bass player. Anyone have an alembic they'd like to loan to me ? I actually called the local music shop right after I read your post and they will rent an entry level bass for $35a month. I could re-track a lot of bass lines in a month!

Did you supplement this with any compressors or fx? If so, what did you use?

Also, it does get a bit repetitive during the parts without vocals or lead guitar.

I like the live vibe you have, suits the style well.

Thanks k! I really like your recordings and I thought I remembered you chiming in on some of my stuff a while back.

I don't really have any outboard effects . I do use a cheap alesis multi-FX guitar pedal for some compression while tracking and limiting during mixdown. I also use it for some hall reverb here and there. It is noisy and the FX are not great, but overall I think it adds more than it takes away.

I was definitely going for a live sort of sound and am glad that came across. I need to think about what I can add for variation during the repetitve parts. I will think about what you've suggested. Thanks again!

I like the sound of this, but I'm only listening on cans. I wouldn't change a thing. I think the bass is good enough to overpower the other tracks. It's as much a rhythm instrument as the drums. Probably does the job better

Thank you for checking it our Xeries! I like trying to create bass lines, but am guessing that with an actual bass, I could get more low end punch without needing so much volume. Must....find....bass.

 

[santiu]

I recorded this with a tascam 688 8-track cassette mixer/recorder. Top of the line in its day, but my machine is tired and keeps slowing down and speeding up - makes it hard to stay in tune.

ah man, i'm so jealous. I really want to get either one of those or a 388. just not sure I'm ready to deal with the upkeep of an old machine on top of learning how to record just yet... but one of these days

Must....find....bass.

pawn shops are your friends (also independent music shops that sell old used stuff) Especially if you're into the whole garage/lo-fi thing. You can find a pretty decent bass in a pawn shop that plays decent and sounds decent. And if later on if you want, you can replace the electronics. I love old cheap things that people hot-rod out to their liking. they always have tons of character.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Excellent mix. I really can't criticize the recording at all.

As to the writing, as people have said already, it gets a little repetitive at times with the rhythm section doing the same thing for 5 minutes. I wouldn't have minded a little more variety in the bass line.

 

[heatmiser]

just not sure I'm ready to deal with the upkeep of an old machine on top of learning how to record just yet...

pawn shops are your friends

If you get one in good condition I think the upkeep is pretty minimal. I bought mine in rough shape to begin with and have done little other than clean the heads every so often and while it has been a struggle to keep it running, but it keeps running.

Good thought on the pawn shops...not as many of those around here as when I was a kid, but I really am just looking for something cheap that will stay in tune for at least 5 minutes at a time. I've gotten by with guitar-as-bass for the last 15 years, so I figure any bass would be an improvement...I'm just so broke .

Excellent mix. I really can't criticize the recording at all.

As to the writing, as people have said already, it gets a little repetitive at times with the rhythm section doing the same thing for 5 minutes. I wouldn't have minded a little more variety in the bass line.

Thanks Steve .

Ok, so there is definitely consensus here...too long and/or too repetitive. I appreciate that. For a long time I tried to play bass like a guitar and improvised throughout like I was phil lesh or something...feedback mounted over the years suggesting I should simplify and find more simple grooves to gound my songs...lately, I may have gone too far. Your comments and others have inspired me to strive for some kind of middle ground there. Thanks.

 

[Greg_L]

It's the drum machine that's screwing it up for me. I like the sounds of the guitars and stuff. They're a bit fuzzy and wacky, but different and they sound cool with the vocal style. The "kick" is mega-boomy and sounds like some kind of rap sample. The "snare" is weak and thin. Maybe you want them that way, but those are the only things that stand out to me as being a problem with this mix. Overall it's pretty cool and unique.

 

[Riffmaster]

I like the off the wall quirkiness in general. I agree about the drums..they should be "garagier". The kick needs some attack. Might benefit from cutting the length, around 3:25 seemed like a logical conclusion. Very original though.

 

[heatmiser]

It's the drum machine that's screwing it up for me. I like the sounds of the guitars and stuff. They're a bit fuzzy and wacky, but different and they sound cool with the vocal style. The "kick" is mega-boomy and sounds like some kind of rap sample. The "snare" is weak and thin. Maybe you want them that way, but those are the only things that stand out to me as being a problem with this mix. Overall it's pretty cool and unique.

Thanks for checking it our Greg !

Yes, the kick is an 808 setting and the snare is a layering of an 808 and at one or two others. I was going for sort of Public Enemy, but instead I get Master Flash.... My choices on Dr Rhythm are limited, but I bet I can still do better.

In order to try to get a dirtier, less digital sound, I run the drum machine through some FX, through a guitar amp and used two mics (57 & spB1)...also ran another output direct in for some crispness and mixed the 3 tracks to taste. The thing is just so damn cheesy and flat sounding direct in...

Anyone have tricks for coloring a basic drum machine sound to mask the cheese?

 

[heatmiser]

I like the off the wall quirkiness in general. I agree about the drums..they should be "garagier". The kick needs some attack. Might benefit from cutting the length, around 3:25 seemed like a logical conclusion. Very original though.

Thank you very much for listening Riff...

See above for drum issues. I struggle with being concise (amoung other things) and probably do only have about 3 minutes worth of entertainment here...but I wanted to get to the envelope filter jam at the end...I always have fade-out jams...they may really be superfluous though.

Thanks again!

 

[heatmiser]

So...taking stock...all I need to do is shorten it, add some variety, buy a bass, track a more varied bass line, tighten up the distorted guitars, fix the kick, fix the snare and then I am basically all set! LOL

I will see what I can do...

I seriously appreciate all of the unput guys.

 

[Greg_L]

So...taking stock...all I need to do is shorten it, add some variety, buy a bass, track a more varied bass line, tighten up the distorted guitars, fix the kick, fix the snare and then I am basically all set! LOL

I will see what I can do...

I seriously appreciate all of the unput guys.

Lol. You don't have to do all of those things. It's your song, just tell us to fuck off.

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah! That's right!...uh...fuck off!









Oh wait, I probably didn't have to do that either...

 

[heatmiser]

New mix - same link at the top.

Featuring

Scooped and lowered bass
Lowered lead guitar
Louder and less scooped rhythm guitars
Less boomy kick
Thicker snare
Shorter! (not by much)

Any better?

 

[Rokket]

New mix - same link at the top.

Featuring

Scooped and lowered bass
Lowered lead guitar
Louder and less scooped rhythm guitars
Less boomy kick
Thicker snare
Shorter! (not by much)

Any better?

Heat, I can't listen for a day or two... ( still on the high seas )

But at the end of July I can give you some bass lines if you want to send me some 190kbps or higher mp3's to work with.


PM me and I'll give you more details...