Please Help: Issues with Recording Acoustic Guitar

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BlakeVT03

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Hi All,

Please help a man out if you'd be so kind! I am currently trying to record acoustic guitar, and eliminate excessive frequencies. The frequencies I am referring to are specific to string overtones, where once the strings are strummed, immediately following is an extreme level of excess noise and zing, and when recording this does not depict a very clear natural sound as if listening to the guitar by ear.

I need to cut this excess noise out of the recording. I've done this to the best of my ability through all sorts of EQ combinations including: low-pass filters and completely dropping out the mid to high-end frequency bands (narrowing & widening the Qs) to accommodate for this noise. Unfortunately when i do this, it creates a very dull sounding recording of the guitar. The best I can do is to use 2 EQs (in Pro Tools 9) on the same track to cut the overtones out, then try to add a little high-end back in so it sounds somewhat natural. I can only imagine this may have everything to do with the quality of strings, or some function I am not using in my hardware or software that can eliminate this.

In terms of gear, my acoustic guitar is a Taylor 110e, and I replaced the original strings (Elixir Lights) with Elixir Nanoweb Phosphor-Bronze strings (also lights), which are supposed to be a warmer string. I am mic'ing my guitar (I am not using DI from guitar to audio interface). The mic is a Samson CL8 condenser mic, and yes, I have experimented with every mic placement technique you can think of, same result. The mic then runs via XLR to my M-Audio C400 audio interface, and then from the interface to my laptop via USB. I am running Pro Tools 9, and I am listening to the play-back through Sony professional studio headphones. I have not added anything to the original track during recording of the guitar, except for a very mild compressor (I get the overtones with or without compression, of course). Finally, I have experimented with this in several different rooms in the house (small / large, carpet / hardwood floors, etc) and same result, and I know this is not related to room acoustics.

What can I do to eliminate this? Is there anything I should be using between the microphone and the audio interface? Might string choice be an issue? I can't imagine finding a set of strings that would eliminate these overtones completely.

Based on what I've read, I should only have to use mild EQ, if any, when recording acoustic guitar, and the fact that I'm having to use 2 EQs to get a better sound is obviously a problem. Any help that you all can provide would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
Blake
 
Hi there.
I can think of three immediate things that might be relevant.

One is, maybe the guitar just sounds like that? I guess you wouldn't hear it as clearly as you're behind it and the mic is in front.

Two is, I know you said you experimented with position, but could you be too close to the soundhole, or just too close to the guitar?

Three is your room. You could be recording the effect of standing waves and strong reflections that don't seem as obvious when playing live.

Is that any use at all?
 
Oh, and I don't know that microphone. It could well be accentuating certain frequencies.

Do you have any other mics for comparison?
 
Thanks for the reply! When I listen to someone else playing my guitar, I don't hear the overtones (the natural sound of the guitar filters out the excessive noise). I do realize that Taylor's in general are brighter sounding guitars, and the mic is picking up noise that cannot be heard as easily by the naked ear. So, if it is just the guitar, I guess I'm stuck!

In terms of mic position, I've tried all recommended positions. To answer your question, I've tried placing the mic near and far from the guitar, unfortunately the overtones do still come through regardless of placement.

Also, I do know that this is not a factor of room ambiance, since I've tried several rooms in the house as I mentioned above. It is strictly correlated to excess string noise / overtones.

Thanks for your help, and to your point, it may just be my guitar, in which case I will have to EQ the heck out of it to make it sound decent.
 
No problem. :)

Hmm. You've really covered all angles, it seems.

The only other variables are the mic and headphones, I guess.
I think my 2nd post came in at the same time as yours.

Worth checking those out, perhaps? Do you have another set of cans, or speakers?
 
I do have a dynamic microphone that I've experimented with (even though not recommended for acoustic guitar recording). Similarly, even though the sound isn't as clear as the condenser mic, the dynamic mic does pic up the overtones as well.
 
Ok, well, that's the easy stuff ruled out.
Maybe you're onto something with the strings?

There are much more experienced guitar guys around here who could help out.

Best of luck, and welcome to HR. :)
 
Can you post a sample of the recorded sound (without EQ)? Try to post a WAV or FLAC file so details is not lost by conversion to MP3. This may be an effect of the headphones you are using, or it even could a problem with the A-to-D conversion in your interface.
 
Yes, I will post a file when I get home from work tonight. I do appreciate you having a listen once posted!
 
Sample Guitar Track

Ok, here is the sample acoustic guitar track. Not the best playing, but it provides the sounds I'm dealing with. With good headphones or studio monitors, you should notice the very high pitched ring in the track, as well as the overtones / reverb sounds I'm experiencing. The track also sounds quite dead and lacks presence, but I seem to be able to fix that by increasing the mid range EQ. It's the high-end I'm concerned about. You'll notice the sounds I'm describing best when the "G" is played. This site will not allow me to upload a .wav file, it only allows mp3 unfortunately, but I listened to the mp3 version and I can't tell any degradation in the sound.

Thanks again for trying to help me out!
 

Attachments

I find I sometimes get overtones coming from the strings above the nut to the tuning pegs, so I stuff cloth underneath the strings to dampen them... worth a try.
 
Thanks for the reply! When I listen to someone else playing my guitar, I don't hear the overtones (the natural sound of the guitar filters out the excessive noise).

Is that listening to a recording of someone else playing your guitar?
 
No, that is me playing into the microphone, which was located about a foot from the guitar, right where the neck meets the body of the guitar.
 
No, sorry! You mentioned that you don't hear overtones when someone else plays your guitar. Is that listening to them play your guitar live, or recorded?
 
Can you describe in more detail these 'overtones'? What frequencies are you cutting to remove them (you mention doing this in your first post)? I don't hear them in this recording. I think you're hearing the natural sound of the guitar, and you just need to adjust positioning of the mic. Using 2 mics in an 'XY' configuration might help, too.
 
What pickup pattern are you using with the Samson CL8?

It sounds to me like it might be set to figure 8 and is picking up room reflections of a sort. Try the supercardioid setting and see if anything changes. Just curious

I seem to see multiple echoes in the waveform that may lend credence to my suspicion
 
I would say if the sound is distorting that you may have the input volume too loud from the mike. I get a better recording if I don't push the mike close to the red. I get the best recordings when it's quite a bit lower.
 
2 things came to mind....

1) You seemed to try just about anything, but I didn't read whether or not you experimented with different picks? It's simple, but like sticks on a cymbal, it can make a VERY big difference.

2)

the mic is picking up noise that cannot be heard as easily by the naked ear.

If you can't hear it with the naked ear, you shouldn't hear it once it's recorded. This tells me that you more than likely have a mic or A-D converter or signal issue.

Peace!
 
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