please dont flame me

[e unum pluribus]

i know everyone hates these "noob here who doesnt know how to use the search funtion" threads but just one quick question and ill be on my way...

i swear i searched and couldnt find what i need

i currently am a digital guy but ive been stuck away from home for a while, and would like to try my hand at tape, so with out further adue

i want a tape recorder that wont kill the wallet but records fairly good i dont want a demo machine but all i see on musicians friend for analog are just that... i dont know if im lookin gfor the wrong stuff or what, also a link would be awsome

im looking to spend about 1000 on multitrack and compressor and reverb

i have heard good things about the tascam 424 idont know ...

 

[antispatula]

it depends on how many tracks you want. Here are some well known for each:

1 track: uh.....pretty non-existent nowadays, you can sometimes still find mono recorders. I've got a tube mono recorder, but don't look too hard, they tend to be REALLY old and funky if you find one.

2 track: The best I've heard of is the Otari Mtr 10. 2 tracks are usually for mixing and mastering. This thing goes for many hundreds.

4 track: Teac A 3340. That's seems to be the most popular 4 track. You can get one for pretty cheap.

8 track: There are quite a few I know of, the cheapest being the Fostex r8 (~250 on ebay), which is a really nice little thing, and of course the Tascam 388,(300-600 if I'm not mistaken, on ebay) which is an all-in-one recorder that has a built in mixer. I've hear that thing rocks. And then you get into 8 tracks that use 1/2" tape, instead of all the others before this, which use 1/4" tape. So now for the 1/2" 8 tracks, there is the Otari Mx5050 MkIII (~600 on ebay), which is great, then the Tascam 38 which is also very popular, and the Tascam 48, which go for less. Most 8 tracks use 1/2" tape, some use 1", and some use 2". The White Stripes used an 8 track 2" tape to record most of their stuff if I'm not mistaken and MAN do they sound good.

16 track: Eh, I'm not too familiar with machines past 8 tracks, seeing that's what my musical style is usually drawn to. But there is the Tascam MSR 16, and many others I know nothing about. I've seen them go for 500. 16 tracks usually have 1" or 2" tape.

24 track: Again, I know nothing about 24 tracks, but they seemed to make Studer pretty popular, I've seen a few Studer 4 tracks. Otari and Ampex made popular 24 tracks too. Most 24 tracks use 2" tape. New 2" tape goes for over like 200 bucks I think if I remember. I could be wrong.

Forgive me if this is off a little bit

But if you're willing to spend 1,000 bucks, then you no doubt can get a VERY decent machine. Good luck, best place to find tape is Zzounds.com. Musiciansfriend has them, but they don't have 457 tape, which is what some people use. Best place to look for machines is LOCAL CLASSIFIEDS. I got an Otari MX 5050 MKIII for 100 bucks. In fact, in a few hours, I'm driving up to SF to pick up ANOTHER Otari mx 5050 mkIII for 200, but only to sell and get money I desperately need. But seriously, Craigslist has saved me around 1,000 dollars. I got Event Tr6 monitors for 200 using that site etc. And of course there is ebay. That's always a good option.

Hope that helped!

 

[jpmorris]

8 track: There are quite a few I know of, the cheapest being the Fostex r8 (~250 on ebay), which is a really nice little thing, and of course the Tascam 388,(300-600 if I'm not mistaken, on ebay) which is an all-in-one recorder that has a built in mixer. I've hear that thing rocks. And then you get into 8 tracks that use 1/2" tape, instead of all the others before this, which use 1/4" tape. So now for the 1/2" 8 tracks, there is the Otari Mx5050 MkIII (~600 on ebay), which is great, then the Tascam 38 which is also very popular, and the Tascam 48, which go for less. Most 8 tracks use 1/2" tape, some use 1", and some use 2". The White Stripes used an 8 track 2" tape to record most of their stuff if I'm not mistaken and MAN do they sound good.

8-tracks range from 1/8" cassette (Tascam 238 etc) up to 2". 2" is not common, though: I believe the only machines to offer this format are modded with JRF heads (ATR sell machines in this format). It is not cheap to buy, and it isn't going to be cheap to run either.

Pro 8-track format, as used by Iron butterfly, King Crimson, Pink Floyd and pretty much all groups around 1970 was 1" (which naturally progressed to 2" 16 track simply by doubling the width of the tape). It seems to have been a long-lived format: even Otari's last multitrack could be converted to use it, and I think STM in Hungary are still making them. You don't need noise reduction for this unless you're doing lots of track-bouncing.

1/2" 8-track appears to have been pioneered by ITAM in London (they also did a 1" 16-track machine), but isn't necessarily considered a professional quality format. I use it though and get nice results. Machines that run this format include: ITAM 805/806, Otari 5050-8, Tascam 80-8/38/48/58/TSR-8 and the Revox C278.

1/4" 8-track format appears to be the preserve of Fostex, although Tascam also use it with the 388.

There was also a 1" 12-track format, but these are like hen's teeth (when Frank Zappa wanted to digitise his 12-track masters, he had to use a 24-track Studer with custom-built tape guides..)

There are some 1" 16-track machines, which were made by ITAM, Otari and Tascam.
24-track machines are almost always 2", however Tascam and Fostex did make some 1" machines.

If you are looking at a very narrow-track format, be aware of cross-talk between them. This is worst when recording.. you will hear the track being recorded on adjacent tracks during the recording. If you are using the last track for SMPTE (e.g. to drive a sequencer, or synchronise against a computer etc), you will have to sacrifice the track next to it on 1/4" 8-track formats. You can get away with it on 1/2" if you're careful. For the 16 and 24-track formats, you probably won't care about losing one

 

[e unum pluribus]

ok guys thanks for the replies so i ll be looking for a 8 track 1" or 4 track 1/2" but i also read some analoge FAQs and heard that i would be needing a higher tapespeed like at least 15 to 30ips... and i will also be needing three heads...

is there a portable one like this? im kinda in a crappy situation with living arrangements and cant get too comfortable .

also i need to figure out how im gonna get this into the computer for 24 bit mastering (no way im wasting all the money i have invested in the digital world)

so i guess its back to the FAQs

 

[e unum pluribus]

is it possible to get professional sounding recording with four track 1/4 or 1/2 8 track?

 

[MadAudio]

is it possible to get professional sounding recording with four track 1/4 or 1/2 8 track?

Yes, but that depends on more factors that just the tape recorder, like the room you're recording in, mic pres, mics, etc.

 

[e unum pluribus]

yeha im following you on the recording chain
but i mean ive found some pretty good stuff on ebay like the tascam 32 (researching) and the teac 3340 (researching) and just wanted to know are these going to be a good medium for my music and are these anybetter than say a tascam 424, i know vintage is cool and all but hasnt technology made the new cassette recorders just as good as the reel to reels of yesteryear? from what i understand so far the saturation lays in the hands (mostly) of the tape speed or am i wrong here?

 

[MadAudio]

No, a good analog R2R is going to sound much better than cassette. There's more physical space on the tape for the audio, and the tape speed is much faster (between 7.5 and 30 ips depending on what kind of machine). The quicker the tape speed, the better the resolution.

I have a Tascam 38 that I'm dying to put back in action. I recorded one of my old bands with it, and it's still one of the best sounding things I've ever done.

 

[e unum pluribus]

ok i found a teac 3340 on ebay for pretty cheap (really would open up my options for preamps) records at 15 ips and seems that alot of people have some good things to say about them here is the linky

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Most-Comple...ryZ67814QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

looks like a sweet deal and the guy sounds like its taken care of...

 

[e unum pluribus]

sorry to bump guys but what do you think ? the bidding closes in an hour or so

also what is the difference between the 3340s and the 3340?

 

[MadAudio]

sorry to bump guys but what do you think ? the bidding closes in an hour or so

also what is the difference between the 3340s and the 3340?

I didn't respond because I really don't know that model. I was hoping one of the analog gurus would show up.....

 

[e unum pluribus]

thas cool dude,
im just gonna bid my max and i get it it musta been meant to be...

but hey what else would i need in my signal chain to achieve semi studio sound i.e. i want to max out my 3340 for quality, i dont want my mic, mixer, preamp, cables, etc to be holding me back you know?

what i have,

an audio interface 24/48 for inputing it into my computer(and everything after that)
1 mogami xrl to xrl cable for mic to mixer
1 sm57 for guitar and vocals
1 c1 or b2(depending on the ending budget)

i know i will need
small 4-6 track mixer (with phantom power i wont be using seperate preamps)
compression unit of some sort(analog?)
reverb unit(analog?)
it looks like i will need a 1/4 inch cable for the mixer to 3340 and to chain the effects or to put them to sends or something so a few more cables...
suggestions?

 

[e unum pluribus]

damn it looks as though i would be getting in a bidding war over that on....

oh well there is another one with a buy it now that looks about as good just not as much info here http://cgi.ebay.com/Teac-3340-4-Tra...meZWD10VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

 

[e unum pluribus]

bought it...

now for a mixer...

and an old compressor and reverb...

 

[cjacek]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the TEAC 3440 as being a better choice than a 3340 . They're also plentiful on eBay, are newer (comparetively) and easier to work with, have closed motor bearings (no need to reoil) and pretty much a better (and newer) design than the 3340. Ok, so you bought the latter and it's still a great machine but you'd still be better off waiting, researching and getting more replies before jumping on eBay and bidding on "a" recorder for some "buy it now" price which may be overblown ... It's like buying an older vintage car in that you really have to know what you're buying and taking the time to do "due dilligence".

As for a mixer, I think you could get away (very nicely at that) with a relatively simple TEAC 2A or as complex and more flexible as the TEAC model 3 or 5, TASCAM M-30, M35, and anything from the 200 or 300 series and above.

For compressor, you have many choices from dbx including the old 118 or 119 (same VCA as the 160VU), Alesis MicroLimiter, RNC from FMR etc...

For reverb, I'd recommend an EMT Plate (if you have the mucho $$$) or an LXP-1 from Lexicon.

 

[e unum pluribus]

hey thanks for the input... i guess i just kinda got paypal happy there for a min lol anyway...

so on the mixer i wanna keep it stupid simple you know like 6 ch is probably the limit cause im only gonna be recording me and smace is kinda limited here...

i like the simplicity and if the preamps are good enough to not need seperate ones i would like to hit up the model 2b (for the phantom power) or something equaly as small an simple

so you say the dbx compressor is pretty good? if so ill probably get one of those ... ill cruize over to some forum buy/sale places first though...

 

[cjacek]

hey thanks for the input... i guess i just kinda got paypal happy there for a min lol anyway...

so on the mixer i wanna keep it stupid simple you know like 6 ch is probably the limit cause im only gonna be recording me and smace is kinda limited here...

i like the simplicity and if the preamps are good enough to not need seperate ones i would like to hit up the model 2b (for the phantom power) or something equaly as small an simple

so you say the dbx compressor is pretty good? if so ill probably get one of those ... ill cruize over to some forum buy/sale places first though...

You will like the TEAC 2A. I have one and I like it and its simplicity, portability and good sound. Btw, there is only the TEAC 2 and 2A (no "B") and these do not have phantom power built in. TEAC 2A is the "newer" design.

 

[jpmorris]

ok guys thanks for the replies so i ll be looking for a 8 track 1" or 4 track 1/2" but i also read some analoge FAQs and heard that i would be needing a higher tapespeed like at least 15 to 30ips... and i will also be needing three heads...

is there a portable one like this? im kinda in a crappy situation with living arrangements and cant get too comfortable .

also i need to figure out how im gonna get this into the computer for 24 bit mastering (no way im wasting all the money i have invested in the digital world)

If portability is important, that casts a different light on things.
I realise you seem to be going with the Teac for now, but should you want to upgrade to an 8-track solution, your best bet would either be the Fostex R8, which is very lightweight (say around 10kg) and has a carrying handle, but runs 1/4" tape, or one of the 1/2" Tascams (38, TSR-8) which weigh around 30-35kg (the 1/2" 8-tracks will have the same track width as the Teac).

The Fostexes and the TSR-8 are 2-head machines, the '38 and pretty much all the others are 3-head designs.

AFAIK the only 'portable' 1-inch 8-track machine is the Brenell mini-8 which is quite rare and probably not less than 20 years old. Everything else in that format will be the size and weight of a cooker.

The 1/2" 4-tracks are fairly rare, but not unheard-of. Mostly this format seems to have been used for cassette duplication, so it tends to be given over to the cooker-sized machines. However the Tascam ATR series and the Otari 5050 can be had in this format, which will be relatively lightweight (probably around the 30kg mark).

If you want to digitize the multitracks, you'd probably want an M-audio Delta of some kind, the 44 should handle the Teac, a 1010 would cover an 8-track machine quite nicely. Do not be tempted to digitize the tracks two at a time, since the machine won't necessarily play at exactly the same speed each time and you'll end up with drift.

If you just want to digitize the 2-track mixdown, anything will probably do.. I use an M-audio Transit which isn't the best but is good enough, and probably the best value for money regarding an external USB 24/96 recorder.

 

[e unum pluribus]

ok here we are

so i got the teac 3340 on the way,

i got a couple questions guys,

how many of you that run the 3340 use an external noise reducer?
and what kind do you use?

and how does this work with a compressor for say a vocals (i think there different arent they)?

also what reverb units are good for a true analog feel, i wanna stay true to the reel to reel sound you know?

still lookin for that teac 2a , i wanna buy that off of a forum if possible with someone that has been around and knows if it works well

as far as i know that is as bare bones as it gets ... which is what i want reverb compression and noise reduction (if needed)

 

[cjacek]

so i got the teac 3340 on the way,

i got a couple questions guys,

how many of you that run the 3340 use an external noise reducer?
and what kind do you use?

and how does this work with a compressor for say a vocals (i think there different arent they)?

also what reverb units are good for a true analog feel, i wanna stay true to the reel to reel sound you know?

still lookin for that teac 2a , i wanna buy that off of a forum if possible with someone that has been around and knows if it works well

as far as i know that is as bare bones as it gets ... which is what i want reverb compression and noise reduction (if needed)

Re TEAC 2A mixer: ask Rolf about it. His site is:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/

...and direct email: Rolf@consolidated.net

He's a really good guy who really knows his stuff, packages stuff remarkably well and all that good stuff! He doesn't sell junk. I have a feeling he can sell you a 2A 'cause he luvs them as well Just email and ask.

Noise reduction: My opinion is that the 3340 does not need it. Is it dead quiet (ie: digital ) ? ... of course not but neither is the hiss offending in any way. If the machine is alligned, callibrated and the tape path isn't magnetized and if you use tape the machine is designed for or set it to a tape of your choice (within reason on this machine), and if you watch recording levels, then you will barely hear any hiss at all and only at very quiet or silent passages. My recommendation is to forget about noise reduction.

Compression and reverb you'd use with an external mixer such as the 2A. I think I still have the manual and diagram of how to hook things up in a downloadable format. If I do I'll post it here so you can see. In any case, there is a way to hook up a compressor and reverb to this mixer.

Reverb: Go with a LEXICON LXP-1. You really can't go wrong there.