Piano recording - Limit or Compress?

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lunatic

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I'll soon be recording a friend's daughter playing piano. I understand that when recording the signal should be kept as clean as possible but there is no way to predict her playing style. So, I'm wondering if I should put a compressor or limiter on the signal to prevent clipping in case she really digs into the music :confused:

Another question would be, how should this thing be mic'd? It's a spinnet (sp?) piano which is basivally a "cropped" upright.

My guess was to open the top and put a MXL-603s on the lower strings and another 603s on the higher strings. Then I can put either an NT-1 or a V67 on the soundboard and one or two ECM8000s in the room.

The pres are DMP2s and VC6Qs and the recorder will be a Fostex D824 at 24/48.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated...

Thanks,
Brad
 
Brad,

I wouldn't compress while tracking in this situation. Instead, I would have her play as loudly as possible while setting levels, and just make sure that level doesn't clip. Then you should be fine to record, and you can leave compression options for mixdown.

As far as micing, I would recommend moving the piano (spinets aren't all that heavy for a couple of strong folks) into the center of the room. Then experiment with micing from the back side of the instrument (a few inches from the soundboard). Don't be afraid to audition a number of positions for best results.

Have fun!
 
Good advice from Little Dog.

I wouldnt compress either but a brick wall limiter at -1db will at least protect the takes from any distortion if she gets too agressive.

Remember a piano tone is more than the hammers striking the string. It is the entire sound board resonating and it takes a few feet for all these different vibrations to come together and create the acoustic piano sound. Putting the mics in the piano will only give you a part of the entire sound. This is good if you want to accent a certain element of tone but in general back off the mics when micing guitar or piano so you can get the big picture. The better the room sound the farther out you can move the mics and get a nice ambient sound.

You will probably have the best results using the 603's and omni's as your closest mics and use the LD's several feet back. 6 mics sounds like overkill and will probably cause phase headaches. 4 is plenty and a stereo pair will probably do the job fine. Especially on a spinnet (blech).
 
Littledog:
Great advice indeed. I don't want to compress so your plan sounds like a good one. I'll have her play a selection of loud material to get an idea if how "heavy" she can be and set levels according to that.

Unfortuantely, I don't have a mixer so riding the levels will be a bit tricky. I'd be riding the gain on at least 4 preamps :eek: but... who says it cannot be done :D


TexRoadkill:
So, your recommending I use the 603s pair instead of ECM 8000s? I can do that. I probably should try them each out at the gig and use what sound best eh ;)

What limiter would you recommend? Maybe I can make the RNC essentially be a limiter? I don't have one but was looking at picking up a pair.


Thank you all for this assistance. I assure you it's appreciated AND, when I get it recorded, it just may end up being my first post in the Mixing Clinic! WOO HOO!

:D
 
If you're going to use a compressor as a limiter in this case, set the ratio as high as it will go, turn the threshold just a hair (-1dB as Tex suggested), and make the attack as fast as it will go.
 
record in 24bit if you can. that's pretty important to keep a lot of the dynamic range.

i wouldn't compress on recording, but, as people have said, a limiter may be a good idea, just incase. but just check levels before and you should be fine.
 
I wasn't saying dont use the ECM's. Try out all your mics there and see what you like. You dont really want to change the gain level while recording unless you absolutely have to. It can create headaches in the mix.

24bit will definately give the ability to record at an overall lower level and leave a little more headroom.
 
Right on!

Thank you all for your valuable input. These are great tips and I feel a little more at ease going into this project. I look forward to the day when I can contribute a bit more back to this group...

So, as a safety net, does anyone have a limiter they can recommend? Is using the RNC as a "limiter" a bad idea?
 
i would eliminate the RNC and try and get your levels sorted before he/she starts playing.

if you get her to play as loud as she can play, and come down a couple of db's to be safe, you should be ok. if you're using 24bit, you'll have a lot more headroom and dynamic range to work with.
 
is there a slot in that keyboard to load my steinway sample cd?

:-)
 
Octoruss... for some reason i get the feeling that your idea isn't a bad one at all. I bet it sounds better than a spinnet piano :eek:

HA!
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help. The recording went very well and, so far, I'm happy with the results.

I ended up using two Marshall MXL-603s and a Marshall MXL-V67. The 603s went through an M-Audio DMP2 and the V67 went through a Joemeek VC6Q with the compression and EQ disabled.

Hopefully, I'll have time to post some samples in the clinic this weekend.


Peace,
Brad
 
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