Phase Cancellation

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Not necessarily.

Also, if every mic IS picking up everything at different times, do you not believe that different frequencies are hitting the different mics at different phase angles? Irregardless of a "phase alignment" plugin? Seems like you would be chasing your tail to me.

Like I said, Ideally the mics are set up right in the first place, then time alignment causes no more phase issues than are inherent in the first place and leaves the snare with one attack - not two (or three, four, five or more - as many home recordings seem to have).

Just as an example, I have a "demo" recording I did a few months ago. I moved several of the drum tracks. You tell me how phasey and muddy the drum tracks are. It's just a quick and dirty demo I did, so the recording is not perfect. But, it's one of the few non death metal projects I have done lately.

As a side not, not only do I not use any "phase alignment" plugins, I bet there are less plugins on the entire mix than most people use on the vox alone.

I am not simply talking about the "attacks" of the drums, you also have to think about how sound bounces around in the room, and how that relates to localization of the recorded elements. Professional recordings have many attacks as well, it's impossible not to. I have found that moving things around screws up the depth of the recording. You are screwing around with time, and time is how sound works and is what allows you to localize certain elements in a space(basically).

Anyways, I completely disagree with you, and the recording doesn't mean anything without being able to hear it with no time alignment, and without being able to go back and arrange mics to be phase coherent in the first place, or use phase alignment tools to see if it works even better than time aligning. I would suggest anyone use these techniques, especially getting it to sound right during tracking before moving tracks around.

-Timedog

 

[NL5]

Professional recordings have many attacks as well, it's impossible not to.

Not true. It is easy to do actually.

You are screwing around with time, and time is how sound works and is what allows you to localize certain elements in a space(basically).

Huh?

the recording doesn't mean anything without being able to hear it with no time alignment, and without being able to go back and arrange mics to be phase coherent in the first place,

It doesn't mean anything? Is it phasey? Muddy? Lacking depth? What? (the MP3 encoding hammered it quite a bit compared to the wav, but other than that)

If you read my post you will see I set up my mics to be phase coherent, and be time alignable at the same time. If you search, I have explained in detail how I do that.

Also, I have worked on many projects that were recorded somewhere else. I have seen ridiculous phase issues that can be made WAY better by time aligning. It's not a be all end all fix by any means - but it sure the hell isn't the devil you've made it out to be either. You really need to step out of the tiny box you seem to be in. Seriously.

Anyway, I'll quit on this subject. It's almost as bad as the 44.1 can't 100% accurately reproduce an audio signal thread. I really am not trying to be an a-hole, just want the record to be straight. (although it never did work in the 44.1 thread -- even with Dan Lavry chiming in! LOL)

Peace.

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Not true. It is easy to do actually.

I meant when tracking. And when mixing too if using 2". Most people mixing digitally don't time align.

It doesn't mean anything? Is it phasey? Muddy? Lacking depth? What? (the MP3 encoding hammered it quite a bit compared to the wav, but other than that)

If you read my post you will see I set up my mics to be phase coherent, and be time alignable at the same time. If you search, I have explained in detail how I do that.

Also, I have worked on many projects that were recorded somewhere else. I have seen ridiculous phase issues that can be made WAY better by time aligning. It's not a be all end all fix by any means - but it sure the hell isn't the devil you've made it out to be either. You really need to step out of the tiny box you seem to be in. Seriously.

Anyway, I'll quit on this subject. It's almost as bad as the 44.1 can't 100% accurately reproduce an audio signal thread. I really am not trying to be an a-hole, just want the record to be straight. (although it never did work in the 44.1 thread -- even with Dan Lavry chiming in! LOL)

Peace.

The comparison to the 44.1 thread is not analogous. You still haven't explained away any of the arguments/reasoning I put forth. The mp3 has no basis with which to compare it to, so it is moot. I never said something can't sound good time aligning, just that in my experience things sound more natural when you do not time align.

-Timedog

 

[drossfile]

i wish more people would get in on this. as much fun as it is to see a couple people debate an issue, i much prefer seeing a free-for-all, or, as i like to call it, "mass debating."

 

[TexRoadkill]

I might slide a room mic track if I want to tighten up the the reverb but not for the sake of phase alignment. I agree sliding the track forward can add some punch in the attack but it can also take away from the boom and sustain leaving you with a thinner sounding track.