perspective quiz

  • Thread starter Thread starter RICK FITZPATRICK
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RICK FITZPATRICK

RICK FITZPATRICK

New member
Hello everyone, I've been so confused by so many ideas here and there, its really getting hard to focus on what it is I am really trying to do in my control room design, so I outlined a few areas of uncertainess. Here are my conclusions. Maybe you can see some things I am missing here. So here are some true/false statements.
1. Room size. wlh. Ok, the thoughts Ive read here kind of boil down to these things.
A room will only support the development of low frequencys by the longest dimension of the room in relationship to the length of the wave. true/false.
2. The ratios of WLH determine how the modes are distributed, and each of these dimensions can be responsible for a frequency and multibles/close frequencies that form standing waves(in a rectangular room,and at the resonant frequency). true/false
3. The use of non-paralell walls/ceiling, will help stop the formation of said standing
waves, if the angle is a minimum of 12 degrees. However, the calculation of modes then becomes so complex, that even a professional will cringe. true/false
4. Since non-parallel walls/ceilings will will stop standing waves, there is no reason to calculate the modes, as the reason in the first place was to determine standing waves. true/false
5. The use of angled walls at the sidewall/frontwall conjectures of the the frontend of a control room, can reflect early reflections to the rear wall. And if the rear wall is at a distance x from the monitoring position, then the reflection from the rear wall will
return by a time delay, of which is determined by distance x. true/false
6. And if this time delay is suffecient enough, the initial wavefront may be monitored without the rear wall reflection confusing the ear of the engineer. true/false
7. The minimum distance x from the monitoring position to the surface of the rear wall
is determined by the speed of sound, and this initial time delay GAP should be a minimum of x milliseconds, in order for the engineer to hear the difference. true/false
8. This inital time delay x, is determined by the ability of the brain to determine the difference. true/false
9. The reflection from the rear wall, can be altered by means of diffusion and absorbtion, and is merely a matter of preference, depending on ones criteria for this preference. true/false
10 There are no perfect rooms. Therefore the criteria for a good room vs. a great room are determined by a consensus of experienced ears. And this consensus is not set in stone. true/false
11. This criteria, has however, evolved, by the demands of the recording capabilitys, and analasis of sounds behavior, and by the ability of consumer equipment to replicate the depth of professional recordings. And shall continue to evolve. true/false
12. Unless your recordings are going to be professionally mastered, then the depth to which one wants to design ones rooms, can be modified to a lower criteria. This level of critera, is determined by ones clientel, who, may or maynot, be demanding
enough to require a mix, which will ultimately be professionally mastered. true/false
13. To take on the designing, building, equiping, financing, recording in, and
taking responsibility for a homerecording recording facility, can be, a lesson in
total confusion, frustration, time and money wasting of, and relationship
threatening avocation, of enormous consequences. true/false
14. This thread has no use, other than to vent a few thoughts that plaque a disillusioned author who need to be remotivated, by truth, and perspective.
true/false

fitz:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
novel?

Thanks for the perspective Mr Sayer. I needed that most of all.:)
 
RICK,

I think generally you are stating facts that you already know the answers to. (See notes about facts at the end of post)

I was confused by the time I reached point 5.

Points 13 and 14 are probably the most relevant.

DON'T be so damned scientific about it...............come up with a design that you feel comfortable with, build it, and then add appropriate treatments for fine tuning.

Use creative visualisation..............in other words, sit down in a comfy chair, put on some quiet, relaxing music and IMAGINE your control room around you.........IMAGINE how it will sound and visualise the sound travelling the room..........you may surprise yourself.


Notes About Facts;

1; Mother used to say "A fact is a lie and a half"

2; A fact is rumoured to be an insect that crawls around on the balls of a flea.

3; A fact is that bit of skinny membrane between the muck-hole and the fuck-hole, and if you break that you're in the shit.........AND THAT'S A FACT:D .


Mate, use your instincts and gut feelings about this project...........John may correct me on this but I think that no matter how perfect a room is designed, that it ultimately depends on the equipment and EARS that are in it.............

:cool:
 
Done said.

Ok ausrock, thats the best advice I've heard yet. The design is only waiting for the space. The purchase of the space is in bank llimboland. Time makes for terrible hindsight and self doubt, so with that in mind, thankyou. I guess I really don't have anything left at the moment to ask about. Sooooo....I bid you good luck with your studios. When I get my space, I will return with my design, for your input. Thanks for the perspective.
Rick
 
are the answer posted anywhere? Cause I wanna know how I did. I will look at this more closely in the morning.
 
thats what I was looking for, answers

Hi mastahnke, please don't construe this a real quiz, as I REALLY am looking for the answers. But it appears they are irrelivant. Or something. Got any ideas, cause now I am REALLY confused as to the purpose of the forum. Ausrock may be right on target. Maybe I jumped into the deep end of the pool without learning how to swim first!:eek:
Ok, I better chill, as its beginning to sound as if I ask TOO many questions regarding this stuff, and it either,and,or
1. bores, irritates and pisses people off
2. sounds as if I have my head up my you know where.
3. leads one to assume the subject is irrelevant to home studios.
4. Is totally based on theory and doesn't matter anyway, at least for homestudios
5. Is too broad of a subject to conjecture, illustrate, prove, and or talk about at length in this environment, at least by amatures such as myself.
6. upsets the status quo
7. Increases the temperature of flaming.
8. Leads people to assume this guy REALLY is an ASSHOLE, regardless of what the question is.
9. Wastes the forums time and energy, cause no one really gives a shit because IT IS PURE CONJECTURE, so why ask it.
10. Raises the possibility, that the ramifications of answers here actually have an effect on decisions based on them, and therefore responsibility for them becomes a liabilty.

Please everyone, do not take this as a act of disrespect for anyone here. On the contrary, I highly respect the people who have graciously taken thier time to answer my questions in the past. However, I am of the opinion at this point that questions of this nature have no business here, so I will search elsewhere. I am sorry for any irritants I may have brought to this forum, and hope that in the future, people who are looking for answers to these sort of questions find them before searching here. This forum provides a great source of enlightenment on a broad range of subject matter, and the gurus of homerecording.com speak from extensive experience and knowledge far beyond my own, which is close to zero. But the fact remains, I still have questions that seem to illicit responses that imply that I should learn to walk before I try to fly. Or at the least chill out Therefore, I have no alternative other than to seek those answers elsewhere, at least as far as this thread is concerned. If I were left to assume the relevant statements at the beginning of this thread were all correct, I would come to the conclusion that building anything but a rectangular room was a waste of time, money, space and energy. Which in my mind, is at odds with many statements made here. And besides, most home studios are of the rectangular variety. But I do not assume that is the best path for the journey I am about to embark on. What I am guilty of is assuming someone here might enlighten me to the contrary. But alas, I have written a novel. A boring, stupid and insolent novel, that is only worthy of one sentence critiques. So be it. Better a question asked with no answer, than no question at all. Personally, I am of the opinion, these types of questions are at the heart of the design decision hiarchy, and should be addressed before any other types of issues are considered. I start my list at an even lower point. I question the validity of assuming that people who speak from experience are indeed correct. Just because someone who has built a homebuilt aircraft that flies, does not prove that it can remain in the air without stalling at 60 mph. And at 500 ft, thats a hell of a place to prove one was wrong. My point exactly. I have no resourses or time to makeup for mistakes in underestimating the potential for acoustic miscalculation. Maybe, because of lack of experience, knowledge, and understanding, I am placing too much emphasis on my percieved importance of acoustical construction and design. But since I am the only one who reaps the consequenses of my mistakes, I try to prevent them in the first place. Its in my nature. Hindsight may be 20/20, but little else. And this is not to say I do not listen to people speaking from experience, and employ that experience as a guide. And with all due respect, I am grateful for the insight and opinions offered here. They have allowed me to see things in a much different light and perspective than had I not visited here. But they have also enlightened me to the possibility of a reaching a higher standard than I had set for myself in the past. And that is only reason for pursuing the answers to questions posted above. THE END.
 
Hey Rick,

Just a few sideline observations:

1. The guys in here with the knowledge (like John Sayers for example) put in a fair amount of time in answering questions of who ever comes in here. We should applaud them for that. So taking into account that you "use" their time when you ask a question, I think it's fair to ask just one or two questions at the time and be patient for the answers before asking them again to spend their time on your problems.

2. I was too a bit intimidated by the size of your posting(s) and this has a lot to do with readabiliy. Try to paragraph your questions, it might give you other one-line responses, but those might answer one of the questions asked.

I think a forum like this is indeed meant to ask those questions, but when asking them we need to respect the effort others are putting into answering them.

Simply stated: don't overload the system ;)

Peter.
 
You are absolutely right!

Too much coffee yesterday:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Thanks for taking the time to replying fairly and not using the flamethrower!
But I would have deserved it.:rolleyes:
fitz
 
Rick,
No flaming from me. Believe me, I know exactly what you're going through. Everyone here have been very helpful in the few questions I have asked to date. I've got a thousand more but (A) I have to better organize my thoughts before asking, (B) I too wonder if I'm over analyzing this project (as verified by my wife), and (C) I realize that it can be time consuming for someone to respond to my posts.

It seems like the more I research the more questions I have. Still I'm learning so much in doing this project that I know at some point my thoughts and planning will solidify. I have no doubt of this just as I have no doubt yours will too. I'm approaching a point where I'll be able to concentrate on a specific task such as building interior walls. Hopefully my sanity will last until then. Even in these days of computers, I started a binder with tab seperators for each "major" topic of my project such as interior walls. Everything I've found on interior walls is in there. Even down to taping the sheetrock (I told you I over analyze). The first sheet is my handwritten analysis of my concerns and what I should do. Just my lo-tech way of doing this.

I know this didn't answer any questions but you're not alone, believe me.

DD
 
Desert Island blues!

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou DD, thats all I need, reassurance that I'm not the only one going through this. I see there is a "gearaholic" dialog going on in one of the other forums. I've come the conclusion I have become a "acoustiholic":eek: God help me!
I've got the DISEASE. Its spreading fast. Where do I get shots? Are there other treatments? Heeeeellllllllpppppp!!!!:D Maybe we should post the symptoms, ie-babbling in acousigabble, asking irrelevant questions by the 1000's,inquiries into dark areas of the mind where only experts have a passport, writing novels that say nothingetc. etc. etc. We must stop this epidemic!!!

ps. sure would like to see your binder. Mine is 20yrs thick:D
fitz
 
Hi Rick,
The source I got the most help from was The Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest. Lots of good info. It's great to gain some perspective and insight before beginning your project, but at some point it comes down to getting the studio built and then learning how to work with your new room. Good luck.
Mark
 
That was the source of my "disease"

Thanks for the reference Mark, my copy is in shreds from pouring over it page by page a million times. Now I'm sure that this is where my confusion lies. Mega-info overload.
What I think I really need, is sort of an acoustics sequencer/map. Spec this first, this second, calculate x next, measure x preceeding a determination x, that sort of thing. Maybe there is no such thing, and no such thing as a perfect room, but there must be some schematic by which acoustic designers approach a project. I'm sure they don't design a room first, and then fix it. And then again, at least what is suggested here, I should go ahead and do my best at designing the room, and treat it till I'm happy with the results. I don't know. Thats the problem. Mr. Everests book, at least the one I have, describes the elements of acoustics in elequent detail, but not the path by which one should take to begin a journey in room design. Unless of course, I have totally missed something, which is entirely possible!:rolleyes: And btw, this is probably completely academic anyway untill I sign papers which will actually give me a REAL space to work with, not just a dream. I have made an offer on a home/commercial building, and I am waiting for the answer right now. Thats probably where all this anxiety is coming from. So thankyou everybody, for the patient advice. Crap, a cold beer sounds terrific at moments like this but I quit drinking alcohol a year ago. Coffee makes me like last night. My only recourse is grapefruit juice and Mountain Dew. Its terrific. :D
fitz
 
Rick,

I started to read your post and got tired after the first few lines. Skimming through, however, it appears as if your thoughts on the subject are not very accurate. Here are a couple quick points I hope will help:

1. ALL room shapes have standing wave modes. Some shapes are better because the modes are more spread out and less intense.

2. The very low frequency characteristics of a room are a result of room shape, energy losses AND the room’s interaction with the low frequency speaker drivers themselves. At some frequencies the speakers are working "with the room" and at other frequencies they are working "against the room".

You can read just a little about this stuff here. http://www.allisonacoustics.com/one_system.html

It's an extremely complicated problem and there is little agreement even on what the characteristics of an "deal room" would be, let alone any straightforward recipe for designing one.

barefoot
 
inacurate was the point

hello barefoot and thankyou for the reply-maybe you can clarify one more thing.
When you say "some of my thoughts are inaccurate, what are you refering to?
I thought I made myself clear that I am CONFUSED ON THE SUBJECTS.
I was not giving a quiz to anyone. I was REALLY looking for answers. Apparently people think that I was trying to be a smartass by making statements that are completely out of my ability to answer myself. These are not statements. They are areas of confusion, so if I ask in a way that sounded like I had my head up my ass, so be it. I do. THATS THE POINT. Now I don't get it. I tried to make it easy for the reader to answer my questions regarding the subject. True or false. I didn't ask anyone to write a thesis or anything. Just true or false. I don't care if they are ALL false, at least I would have found out my way of looking at these is wrong. Thats all. They are probably all inaccurate. I don't know any other way to ask something that I don't understand.
fitz
 
RICK,

I for one didn't think you were baing a smart arse................however, I did think that you had fallen into the trap of becoming too analytical in your approach (I been there, done that).

Even if you can design a room with near perfect walls/floor/ceiling configuration, the minute you start adding furniture, equipment, people, etc., acoustics are going to be altered, hence my advice to find a design you are comfortable with, that will suit your needs and when the time comes build it. Then "tune" it as necessary once you have desks and gear in there.

I strongly believe that there are no definitive answers for a lot of this stuff as there are just too many variables.

:cool:
 
Fitz,

I wasn't coming down on you or trying to say you were being a smart ass. I took your questions in earnest. The problem is you're asking for true/false answers to questions which either make little sense, or are very poorly worded at best. This leads me to believe that you don't really understand the subject enough relative to the kinds of questions your grasping at. You really need a more basic foundation in "elementary" acoustics to begin with. I hope you don't take this as condescending, and I apologize if I'm misreading your level of understanding.

No hard feelings I hope.:)

barefoot
 
Frustration=foot in mouth

Good grief no, none at all, zero hard feelings. I know I do not know. Thats the problem. Ok. No more questions. Thanks for being non-condencending. You answer in good taste, and thats all I ask. This whole thing has gotten a little to serious for me anyway. All I want is a home studio that sounds decent(even though it may be in a commercial building, as the property I made an offer on is zoned commercial, and actually has a commercial building on a main city street in front of the house.) And in the event someone were to come in and engineer for me, I just couldn't stand the thought of spending all the time and money for someone to say "boy does his room suck!!!!:D thankyou again ausrock, and I hope no one has taken offence to my way of posting questions. My wife takes offence constantly.;)
fitz
 
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