People who pay for software get screwed!

[Jayme]

Before I begin, I would like to excuse my spelling (I'm half Spanish).

I'm quite vexed at the moment; to the point of wanting to have a good old rant, bringing up an interesting point, for those who would like to hear and share it.

Here are just a few of the many annoyances I have encountered, thanks to upgrades:

In my years of music making I have been accumulating my own arsenal of hardware and software products.
It seems to be that every time I bought something new, I'd end up losing something else; I bought Sampletank, Halion 1, and cubase vst32 when I had windows98 (Sampletank wasn't compatible with 98, even though it said so on the box!!!) so I upgraded to xp and spent ages waiting for updates for my other programs and drivers, some of which never came out.

Then I bought a Mackie Onyx 400f, that was great! Until service pack 2 came out. It messed up everything! The firewire didn't work properly and I spent months searching for a fix, which finally came, but even though I installed it, there was still a problem with compatibility between the Mackie and SP2.

I gave up and went back to service pack 1. Not being able to use service pack 2, or 3 lead to compatibility problems with software I wanted to buy.
So I decided to put up with what I had and move on..
I went on to buy Ivory, Ezdrummer, Guitar Rig 1 (later upgraded to 2 then 3) and other bits and bobs..

For a while all was well, I only bought programs that didn't require SP2 or 3, until...

Windows vista.
My blood boils from just hearing the name;
I bought a laptop and paid to have Vista as an operating system, thinking that a newer operating system would be better than the old.
I had all sorts of problems; programs not working, drivers not working, no cpu or ram left to work with, e.t.c..
I lost lots of programs because they were old and had obviously been discontinued due to the fact that they had no foreseeable update.
I was forced to re-buy the programs I needed, just because of newer software!
Clearly "Microsoft works" is an oxymoron!

So.. I'd paid good money for something that was worse than what I had before! Unfortunately, and irritably, I was in a position where I couldn't send the laptop back due to the fact that it was the only computer I had, and I needed it there and then.
Anyway, I looked into going back to xp, but I couldn't find the supported drivers, or BIOS update.
Then I found out that Windows 7 was coming out! I read a ton of reviews; people saying that it was amazing! And how Vista was like a prototype of 7!

...I moved on to Windows 7.
Yeah, it's good. But I was stiffed with vista and annoyed! They should have given me a windows 7 update from vista for free!!

Komplete 6 and Guitar Rig 4 were added to the collection...

Then, all of a sudden, my Mackie Onyx 400f stopped working.
My computer won't recognize it anymore! I have made no hardware or software changes and all of the correct drivers and updates are correctly installed.
I think the unit was one of the faulty ones (whiny noise when you have the volume nob less than halfway) and at the time I just thought that it was my setup, making the noise. So I just put up with it.
When I finally found out that there were a bunch of onyx 400f that were duff my warranty had already run out, so I was stuck with a duff one and trying to contact Mackie for help is a joke!
My eyes are now set on the FOCUSRITE LIQUID SAFFIRE 56, but I've got a lot of saving to do.

I think that there should be more support for people who by hardware and software, I'm sick of buying products that only last for a couple of years!

My point is this:
What do we get from paying for software instead of cracking it?

Hassle.

Thanks for the support!
Our loyalty goes unrewarded.

 

[frederic]

I feel your pain. I just finished convincing Windows 2000 drivers for my pile of daisy-chained Emagic Unitor8's to work with Vista. Waste of four hours of my life, though cheaper than replacing all seven units I guess.

I have no problem paying for software.

I do have a problem paying for software THEN finding it out does not work (and never will) in my environment and further, leaving me with no recourse to get my money back, for something I want to use, but cannot.

If the software companies (of all kinds, not just audio software) allowed me to download and use their product even for a week, I could in that time test how it co-exists with everything else I have, then determine if I should keep it or be given a refund.

While $500 might be a lot of money, considering all the use you will get out of it over the next several years (if it works) that's not necessarily an unreasonable price. They key is however, that the software works as advertised and is compatible with everything else you or I would have.

If it's not, we should be able to get a refund.

I really wish the Linux word had support for the Unitor8's directly, even though they are very old midi hardware platform. If it did, I'd reformat my PC right now and load Linux.

The problem is, they don't, and I haven't personally found a midi composing software for Linux that parallel's Cakewalk, er, Sonar for windows.

 

[XLR]

Our loyalty goes unrewarded.

Only in the temporal realm. When you reach the pearly gates you'll see Bill Gates there. And you'll learn that not only did he buy the justice dept., but heaven as well.

 

[TimOBrien]

HINT #1: NEVER 'upgrade' your software until you know it's been out for a while and WORKS for other people.

Everyone who jumped on the service packs or Vista or early Win7 screamed when stuff didn't work.

If you WAIT, they'll make the fixes or you'll know what to avoid.
WAIT until people report back the drivers for your hardware actually works.

My general rule is "never upgrade an OS until it's been out a year and is stable".
(that usually happens about the time they come out with the first service pack.)


.... or from my days in IT departments, "If you jump on bleeding technology, you'll be bleeding in the unemployment line".....

 

[Massive Master]

Word - "Let the pioneers take the arrows" - There's some wisdom there.



And I thought this was going to be an anti-piracy rant where we could tell about our own personal stories of situations that cost us thousands of dollars basically because of software piracy... Oh yes, I have some of those stories...

 

[mixsit]

HINT #1: NEVER 'upgrade' your software until you know it's been out for a while and WORKS for other people.

Everyone who jumped on the service packs or Vista or early Win7 screamed when stuff didn't work.

If you WAIT, they'll make the fixes or you'll know what to avoid.
WAIT until people report back the drivers for your hardware actually works.

My general rule is "never upgrade an OS until it's been out a year and is stable".
(that usually happens about the time they come out with the first service pack.)


.... or from my days in IT departments, "If you jump on bleeding technology, you'll be bleeding in the unemployment line".....

..one place where maybe it's my 'keep it simple, slow ( and a good dash of lazy nature that's paid off. ..several years of quite painless, stable systems.
Jim Roseberry DAW's, Cake/ Sonar..
But then I'm doing mostly purely audio that negates a lot of software needs some of you are in to.
Hell I'd still be on the previous XP rig and the Frontier Dakota (ten years?) if the old PCI bus/voltage thing hadn't pushed my hand.

 

[Jim Lad]

I've gone through many of the same things as yourself.
By the time I was done, I was able to build my own computers.
Finally, I switched over to a stand alone recorder and only use the PC for editing.
For that.... just a simple Compaq C and Windows XP, Home.

 

[rayc]

My happiest recording realm was with cakewalk Pro Audio under Win 98 using a Turle Beach Santa Cruz card.
I had fun - it all worked well together and I made some decent noise.
then I tried XP & had huge probs - eventually I wound the clock back & reinstalled 98 after reformatting. that machine worked wonders for me for ages.
I've upgraded but only slightly - an INCA 88 card & break out box, the same Pro Audio with a couple of minor upgrades including the VST wrapper and XP BUT the machine is perm off line - no internet access for this one.
I paid for everything but usually 2nd hand or discounted older stock.
I haven't been battered too much excpet by the 1st XP upgrade. SP1, 2 & 3 have come & gone with only a hiccough or two.
Oh, by the way, your English is well spelt & well constructed - native speaker or not - it's GOOD!

 

[VomitHatSteve]

My happiest recording realm was with cakewalk Pro Audio under Win 98 using a Turle Beach Santa Cruz card.
I had fun - it all worked well together and I made some decent noise.
then I tried XP & had huge probs - eventually I wound the clock back & reinstalled 98 after reformatting. that machine worked wonders for me for ages.
I've upgraded but only slightly - an INCA 88 card & break out box, the same Pro Audio with a couple of minor upgrades including the VST wrapper and XP BUT the machine is perm off line - no internet access for this one.
I paid for everything but usually 2nd hand or discounted older stock.
I haven't been battered too much excpet by the 1st XP upgrade. SP1, 2 & 3 have come & gone with only a hiccough or two.
Oh, by the way, your English is well spelt & well constructed - native speaker or not - it's GOOD!

That's pretty much my strategy too. I've got a 2 year old XP box on the opposite side of my apt from anything resembling a network cable. The only problems I have had are that it boots too slowly, and it's a hassle to copy files from that machine to the networked one.

 

[frederic]

The problem is the "studio PC" often gets asked to do other things: Accounting, Inventory management, Internet, Marketing, Sales.

For years, I maintained two PC's, one for the studio, one for everything else. The "everything else" PC was always updated, latest and greatest drivers, patches, OS, etc, and the studio PC remained as it was because it worked.

A few years ago I chose to upgrade both computers because there is only so much a pair of dinosaurs can do, so I decided to combine everything into one, massive PC.

That's when all the aggrevation started. Today, years later, I am still questioning the wisdom of consolodating PC's. Win98, Cakewalk Pro, and my Unitor interfaces worked flawlessly together.

I do miss those days.

 

[Jayme]

HINT #1: NEVER 'upgrade' your software until you know it's been out for a while and WORKS for other people.

Everyone who jumped on the service packs or Vista or early Win7 screamed when stuff didn't work.

If you WAIT, they'll make the fixes or you'll know what to avoid.
WAIT until people report back the drivers for your hardware actually works.

My general rule is "never upgrade an OS until it's been out a year and is stable".
(that usually happens about the time they come out with the first service pack.)


.... or from my days in IT departments, "If you jump on bleeding technology, you'll be bleeding in the unemployment line".....

Thank you for your advice!
I understand what you're saying, but have to disagree because, technically, what you're saying is; "hey, don't upgrade your software or OS, let some other chump waste his/her time and money finding all the bugs". That, to me, seems unfair and immoral!
Why are manufacturers SELLING this software if it doesn't work right!? It shouldn't be released until the manufacturers are certain it works!




--------------------

@frederic; thanks for your sympathy and @rayc; Cheers!

 

[frederic]

Why are manufacturers SELLING this software if it doesn't work right!? It shouldn't be released until the manufacturers are certain it works!

Because software manufactureres cannot test their software for all combinations of hardware and other software it must co-exist with, on our PC's.

Writing a business application (like Word, Excel, Powerpoint) is far easier because if the application hesitates for 25ms it's no big deal, but if your audio recording software hestitates, it's going to make musical efforts nearly impossible.

Do you use one program, once piece of hardware, on one PC? Probably not

Like most of us you have a kludge of things. If you saw my gear list you'd probably scratch your head trying to figure out how I got it all to work together reasonably well - and reasonably is loosely defined

One or more brands of midi interfaces, one or more brands of audio recording hardware, a mix of both, and that's just to get started. All of these things require drivers, and the drivers don't always behave.

Add to that all the software you use to manage things - library software, patch software, midi machine control software, external USB-based control surfaces, and the list of potentially incompatible stuff just gets larger and larger exponentially.

Software companies can't test their application in the way you or I might use them - it's just outright impossible considering all the possible gear we might have kludged together.

This is one of the benefits of something like Pro-tools - you can in theory buy everything from one vendor, knowing it's all going to work together better than "reasonably" and the software developers at protools have a good clue what it is their software will run on - mostly their hardware.

Heck, some of my gear is 15 years old. Can I honestly expect a software vendor to take that into consideration when they develop software?

 

[suprstar]

Why are manufacturers SELLING this software if it doesn't work right!? It shouldn't be released until the manufacturers are certain it works!

There mu$t be $ome rea$on, but I'm not $ure what it i$...

 

[Jayme]

The point I'm making is; some manufacturers are too hasty when releasing new software. They make you buy it and then try it out.
They should be more supportive towards the buyer!
Why don't the manufacturers compensate by paying some money back to the people who find these mistakes!!?? Or giving them free upgrades? Seeing as WE are the ones doing a job they should have done!
Pro tools is reliable because their company have obviously put in the work, but some other companies don't, when they should be, and those are the ones who I am having a rant about!

 

[Jim Lad]

The point I'm making is; some manufacturers are too hasty when releasing new software. They make you buy it and then try it out.
They should be more supportive towards the buyer!

I think you're missing the point.
Microsoft keeps making changes to their operating systems.
Manufacturers have made some physical changes to motherboards.
The result is that all of the other software producers have to play "Catch Up" and older PCI cards don't fit in new motherboards.
That's why I'm using an Echo Mona with an older PC and also why I prefer XP over Vista.

 

[XLR]

Microsoft keeps making changes to their operating systems.

Yes. Weekly, it seems, given the rate of my internet machine's XP security updates.

That's why my main tracking machine is a Win98 dinosaur with no online access. Stable as a rock. Never a glitch, click, or pop. Easy to transfer files to a more modern machine for cpu intensive mixing.

 

[Jayme]

Microsoft keeps making changes to their operating systems.

Exactly!
Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL BUGGY!!!!!!!!!!!! !

I think YOU'RE missing the point. I was talking about software, not hardware!

And anyway, even if they do have to "catch up" that is no excuse for them to make faulty updates and drivers.

 

[XLR]

Exactly!
Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL BUGGY!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Software exists in a turbulent, always-changing environment. IME this is more often the problem, compared to release-before-being-ready issues, not that they don't happen.

Anyway, everyone shares your frustration.

 

[Jayme]

Software exists in a turbulent, always-changing environment. IME this is more often the problem, compared to release-before-being-ready issues, not that they don't happen.

Anyway, everyone shares your frustration.

Amen to that

 

[Jim Lad]

Yes. Weekly, it seems, given the rate of my internet machine's XP security updates.

Yup! That's why my studio PC is offline too.

Exactly!
Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL BUGGY!!!!!!!!!!!! !

My point, exactly.

I think YOU'RE missing the point. I was talking about software, not hardware!

And I mentioned both. That was wrong of me. I'll never do it again.

And anyway, even if they do have to "catch up" that is no excuse for them to make faulty updates and drivers.

Who is making faulty updates and drivers and why do they require updates?
Let me know and I'll avoid them.
Glad we're on the same side.