GT
New member
Anyone want to share their ideas on setting intonation on their electrics.
Strobe or other.
I will try to keep my mouth shut, this go round.
GT
Strobe or other.
I will try to keep my mouth shut, this go round.
GT
64Firebird
New member
I set intonation every time I change strings (once a week or so). I use a lequid crystal chromatic tuner and check the open string compaired to the 12th fret harmonic. If it's too high, I make the string longer. Too low, make it shorter.
I used to have an old tuner that would display numbers. If you played an open A it would read 220.0. But, I lost it in one of my many moves over the years. But, it worked great!
I used to have an old tuner that would display numbers. If you played an open A it would read 220.0. But, I lost it in one of my many moves over the years. But, it worked great!
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
shouldnt it be the harmonic at the 12th fret to the fretted note at the 12th fret?.....
matty_boy
New member
Gidge is right. 12th fret harmonic should be the same as the 12th fret (a=220 hz). This is, of course, one octave higher than the open string (a=440hz).
teknomike
Oldbie
I use my Roland GR-50 guitar synth. I install the GK-2A temporarily on the guitar I want to intonate, and the GR-50 has a chromatic tuner with a frequency readout (down to 0.1 Hz). Works like a charm ! My Godin LGX-SA (with the built in pitch to voltage converter) is probably the best intonated guitar I have ever owned !.
Just a thought - you could probably pick up this GR-50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=865596387
pretty cheap, buy a GK-2a, and have one of the best toys you could ever want (and it's useful for intonation). And no, it's not mine, I wouldn't part with mine for love nor money.
Cheers,
Mike
Just a thought - you could probably pick up this GR-50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=865596387
pretty cheap, buy a GK-2a, and have one of the best toys you could ever want (and it's useful for intonation). And no, it's not mine, I wouldn't part with mine for love nor money.
Cheers,
Mike
64Firebird
New member
Gidge said:
I forgot to mention that. I check all three for the same note. Open, harmonic at 12 and fretted at 12. I want them all to match.
Lopp
New member
Open and 12th will always match unless it is so far off that you don't get a harmonic.
Scooter B
New member
Good point Lopp,
Also it is best to make sure the strings are well stretched out before setting intonation. I would never set the intonation the same day I put on he strings unless they had a couple hours of aggressive playing time on them.
Also it is best to make sure the strings are well stretched out before setting intonation. I would never set the intonation the same day I put on he strings unless they had a couple hours of aggressive playing time on them.
pchorman
New member
deja vu
I guess this topic has to come up and get the living hell beaten out of it at least once a year for good measure, so why not...
46'bird: do you really notice shifts in intonation between sets of strings of the same type, or do you just do it as a confirmation check (to sleep better)? I didn't think the slight differences in string gauge tolerance would be measureable.
As for the fretted note vs harmonic test, fret placement is imperfect, and it is the primary reason why intonation must be set in the first place. But a 12th fret harmonic, on the other hand, does not change pitch by moving your fat finger around a little, and is always loudest at the midway point along the string. An argument can therefore be made that intonation must always be set against fretted notes, not harmonics (unless of course you always play harmonics instead!).
But why stop there, at the 12th fret? What if your guitar manufacturer positioned the 12th fret slighty off of dead-center by a few thousandths of an inch (after all, it can never be perfect), and say for argument's sake that most of the other frets happen to be better positioned, closer to where they should be after being hammered into the slots in the fretboard. In this case you are worse off setting intonation using only the 12th fret than if you did a balancing act among all frets. It's always a trade-off. The open / 12th fret check is just a quick and dirty check.
I should mention here that a couple of years back I was puzzled over why some of the lower notes along my G-string always seemed a few cents sharp, particularly the A note at 2nd fret which may be one of the most popular spots on the fretboard. After lots of theorizing with folks on this forum, including GT the instigator for this post, it turned out to be improper string height at the nut. That string was slightly higher than its neighbors - that's all it took. I had a guitarsmith file things down evenly (what they call "regulating the nut"), and there went my intonation problem.
Someone on this forum turned me onto an incredibly accurate computer-based shareware tuner called TuneLab 97. For anyone interested...
http://www.tunelab-world.com/
.
I guess this topic has to come up and get the living hell beaten out of it at least once a year for good measure, so why not...
46'bird: do you really notice shifts in intonation between sets of strings of the same type, or do you just do it as a confirmation check (to sleep better)? I didn't think the slight differences in string gauge tolerance would be measureable.
As for the fretted note vs harmonic test, fret placement is imperfect, and it is the primary reason why intonation must be set in the first place. But a 12th fret harmonic, on the other hand, does not change pitch by moving your fat finger around a little, and is always loudest at the midway point along the string. An argument can therefore be made that intonation must always be set against fretted notes, not harmonics (unless of course you always play harmonics instead!).
But why stop there, at the 12th fret? What if your guitar manufacturer positioned the 12th fret slighty off of dead-center by a few thousandths of an inch (after all, it can never be perfect), and say for argument's sake that most of the other frets happen to be better positioned, closer to where they should be after being hammered into the slots in the fretboard. In this case you are worse off setting intonation using only the 12th fret than if you did a balancing act among all frets. It's always a trade-off. The open / 12th fret check is just a quick and dirty check.
I should mention here that a couple of years back I was puzzled over why some of the lower notes along my G-string always seemed a few cents sharp, particularly the A note at 2nd fret which may be one of the most popular spots on the fretboard. After lots of theorizing with folks on this forum, including GT the instigator for this post, it turned out to be improper string height at the nut. That string was slightly higher than its neighbors - that's all it took. I had a guitarsmith file things down evenly (what they call "regulating the nut"), and there went my intonation problem.
Someone on this forum turned me onto an incredibly accurate computer-based shareware tuner called TuneLab 97. For anyone interested...
http://www.tunelab-world.com/
.
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eyeslikefire
I CAN SMELL EM!
pchorman........
Great post man!
Great post man!
GT
New member
Well put pchoman,
I went a different route, from what looks to be everyone.
Instead of the twelft fret, I used chords up and down the neck, and came up with a compromise tuning of the saddles.
This was due to my belief that, the twelth fret was only good for the twelth fret.
You can check this out for yourself, with just about any decent tuner.
Just do the usual twelth fret setup, and then check some of the other frets, I think you will see what I'm talking about.
The way I went is called tempering. It's is best done by ear.
Just a different perspective.
GT
I went a different route, from what looks to be everyone.
Instead of the twelft fret, I used chords up and down the neck, and came up with a compromise tuning of the saddles.
This was due to my belief that, the twelth fret was only good for the twelth fret.
You can check this out for yourself, with just about any decent tuner.
Just do the usual twelth fret setup, and then check some of the other frets, I think you will see what I'm talking about.
The way I went is called tempering. It's is best done by ear.
Just a different perspective.
GT
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
Just another tip: when you intonate your guitar, don't do it while its on a bench. Put it in your lap like you were playing it in real world conditions. You'll get a more accurate result.
64Firebird
New member
Re: deja vu
Let me explain, the stock bridge on my Firebird didn't have adjustable saddles. So, I've replaced it with a bridge made by BADASS that does. If you've been around guitars for a while I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, this bridge can (and does) move around a little. So, in my case, it's a must.
But, I'm sort of a guitar maintance freak.
pchorman said:
Let me explain, the stock bridge on my Firebird didn't have adjustable saddles. So, I've replaced it with a bridge made by BADASS that does. If you've been around guitars for a while I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, this bridge can (and does) move around a little. So, in my case, it's a must.
But, I'm sort of a guitar maintance freak.
Lopp
New member
If you want it done right, do it yourself.
That being said, how do you intonate a guitar when the saddles are bolted down with a bolt located UNDERNEATH the string at the bridge? Especially a Floyd Rose-type locking bridge.
From what I can tell, you would have to:
- check intonation
- loosen string to get to saddle bolt
- loosen saddle bolt
- adjust saddle to an approximation of what should be correct
- tighten saddle bolt
- tighten and tune string
- check intonation
- repeat if still off
Is there an easier way?
(I really need more axes with fixed bridges).
That being said, how do you intonate a guitar when the saddles are bolted down with a bolt located UNDERNEATH the string at the bridge? Especially a Floyd Rose-type locking bridge.
From what I can tell, you would have to:
- check intonation
- loosen string to get to saddle bolt
- loosen saddle bolt
- adjust saddle to an approximation of what should be correct
- tighten saddle bolt
- tighten and tune string
- check intonation
- repeat if still off
Is there an easier way?
(I really need more axes with fixed bridges).
GT
New member
I just remembered the proper name for the way I set up my giutar.
Mean tempered tuning.
I was informed of this in the first intonation thread we did so long ago.
I can't remeber the informents name, he was a music teacher.
pchorman, do you remember who?
BTW: He flat out told me this was not the way to go, but I did it anyway. Necesity is the mother of invention.
GT
Mean tempered tuning.
I was informed of this in the first intonation thread we did so long ago.
I can't remeber the informents name, he was a music teacher.
pchorman, do you remember who?
BTW: He flat out told me this was not the way to go, but I did it anyway. Necesity is the mother of invention.
GT
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
That was me,oh ye of short memory.Yeah,I was a music teacher many years ago,but I have been doing musical instrument QC since 95.
GT,whatever floats your boat,my man.As the sailor said when he rolled the hooker onto her belly,"any port in a storm".
GT,whatever floats your boat,my man.As the sailor said when he rolled the hooker onto her belly,"any port in a storm".
GT
New member
Tom,
I thought that was you!! Yeah bad memory. It's nice that time has passed, and were not quite as self rightious.
I used to be sure I was right, now I don't know, or maybe I'm just glad I don't feel the need to do any more adjusting on my git.
Anyway now I can just play the thing, YES!!
GT
I thought that was you!! Yeah bad memory. It's nice that time has passed, and were not quite as self rightious.
I used to be sure I was right, now I don't know, or maybe I'm just glad I don't feel the need to do any more adjusting on my git.
Anyway now I can just play the thing, YES!!
GT
Fed
New member
Re: deja vu
So how would you set the intonation then? And how would youy use tuneLab to do it.
Thanks
pchorman said:
So how would you set the intonation then? And how would youy use tuneLab to do it.
Thanks
pchorman
New member
The Tunelab turns your computer into a very sensitive chromatic tuner (you need a mic plugged into your sound card).
The open string/12th fret check would be fine if the 12th fret can "speak" for the whole fretboard, but as someone else already said, it speaks only for the 12th fret.
Using Tunelab or any accurate measurement device, go up and down the neck sounding out the notes, looking for slightly sharp or flat notes. Take note of these and try to balance them all out when you tweak the string length (many bridges allow for this, such as the Gibson tune-o-matic on LPs). Intonation probably won't be perfect everywhere, so it's a trade-off you'll have to make as to which notes will remain slightly off and by how much.
The pressure you apply while fretting the notes or playing barre chords is a big factor here, as is exact finger placement.
The open string/12th fret check would be fine if the 12th fret can "speak" for the whole fretboard, but as someone else already said, it speaks only for the 12th fret.
Using Tunelab or any accurate measurement device, go up and down the neck sounding out the notes, looking for slightly sharp or flat notes. Take note of these and try to balance them all out when you tweak the string length (many bridges allow for this, such as the Gibson tune-o-matic on LPs). Intonation probably won't be perfect everywhere, so it's a trade-off you'll have to make as to which notes will remain slightly off and by how much.
The pressure you apply while fretting the notes or playing barre chords is a big factor here, as is exact finger placement.
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