PC vs. Digital Workstations?

  • Thread starter Thread starter drumgeek
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I just want to say that there may be a bit of truth to the above post....but that I have been recording on computer for 3 years now......and have NO problems with latency...not one.....nor do I have any hardware software conflicts/bugs.....never.......and I also use my computer for other things besides music......futhermore, my computer is also two years old so if you buy a computer now I'm sure you can expect better performance......


Maybe I'm the exception to the rule.....but since I have had absolutely NONE of the above problems that I somehow doubt it....Also, I have never once lost any material due to a crash.....
 
of course you have no probs you are the real computer geek!!!

ha ha ha really i dont know anything about it cause i use a standalone daw and i only use a computer to master with soundforge.

i just keep hearing all these things and yes you do have latency you just dont know it. its all a matter of degree!

i spend enough time at a computer what with looking things up and making fun of ppls at the forums. the last thing i need is to connect it to my creative process. ugh!
 
>>>>>>>>>>>the last thing i need is to connect it to my creative process. ugh!



-Ah ha.......So, the truth comes out :D biases :D



Seriously though...I'm sure there is latency...maybe....but with me it's not only not recognizable it's not even remotely recognizable...so as far as I'm concerned it's a non issue...On the other hand, I had a friend who experienced some latency issues with midi only....but he was using a pretty ancient pentium and an older sound blaster .
 
(Just trying to get a visual...) Is latency the amount of space between the time I click the mouse to the time my command is recognized? If it is, is this a problem with the software or a slower system?

As an aside, is it just as easy to "punch" on computer as it is on a standalone unit? Could latency be a potential problem with punching in at the right moment?

Wascal, you had mentioned you have a stand-alone but use software to master. Have you had good luck with this setup? What are you using? The heading of my post says, PC vs. Worskstation, but I have not really thought about combining the two.

Thanks.
 
>>>>>>>>>(Just trying to get a visual...) Is latency the amount of space between the time I click the mouse to the time my command is recognized? If it is, is this a problem with the software or a slower system?


The most common problem with latency as far as I can tell seems to occur when a midi track plays back off time with the rest of the audio tracks.....or when one or a number of tracks midi or audio are off time when playing back......This could effect your ability to get a "good take" when over dubbing and to mix accurately etc..etc....never mind the fact that you don't want to burn a CD that sounds all off time......it presents a number of problems..However, I have heard enough tunes in the mp3 clinic to determine that this is not a very common problem..or at least not one that can't be overcome...And like I said, I never had to deal with it anyway.....To answer the second question, It is a hardware problem and not a software problem.



>>>>>>>>As an aside, is it just as easy to "punch" on computer as it is on a standalone unit? Could latency be a potential problem with punching in at the right moment?


You aren't going to have any problems punching in with a computer infact the accuracy of punching in on a computer is greatly improved upon.....you are able to type the exact time, (commonly reffered to in some programs as the "now time") that you want to punch in and the computer will punch you in at that exact time...........I'm not sure how this works on a standalone, however, compared to the older analog days "punching in" is greatly improved in terms of getting that punch in at the exact moment you need it to occur.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wascal, you had mentioned you have a stand-alone but use software to master. Have you had good luck with this setup? What are you using? The heading of my post says, PC vs. Worskstation, but I have not really thought about combining the two.


I know I'm not wascal but I'll answer this anyhow :D.....This is also an option......however all those aforementioned problems with recording on computer...ie latency...losing work..etc...etc...are all factors with this route as well.....So if you are using you're computer for editing and everything anyhow without any problems then really the only reason to use a stand alone digital workstation is out of personal preference.....i.e.....wascal....saying he doesn't want the computer interfering with his creative process.....which is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned...sounds like something a Ludite would say.....no offense wascal....this debate is all in good fun ;)
 
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Latency usually refers to the phenomenon where the live audio you are singing or playing comes back through your headphones or speakers delayed by a certain amount, due to the lag time created by the digital processing of the sound in the computer or other digital device (like a digital compressor with look- ahead... e.g. TC Finalizer). If the latency is small enough, it may just sound like you are hearing yourself "chorused", but if it is large enough, it may throw off your timing.
 
woof woof woof!

little dog is correct!

what youre playing NOW (overdubbing) is being delayed and your timing is screwed!

it is usually just a fraction of a second but can be as much as one second or more.

it has to do with the signal going through all the software and being processed.



i dont want to record on my computer because i am not a computer weenie!

i record on an akai dps16. i submaster to cdr. then i put the cdr in my cdrom drive and put the song into soundforge for mastering. there is no possibility for latency in this procedure.

standalone daws are faster and easier for me but then i dont use midi sequencers or drum machines or fruity loops or any of that fakeass bull plunky.

that schmidt is for woosies.

i use real drums and real bass cab and real everything and i dont sit around like a weenie and edit everything.
 
preamps

Drumgeek

I use a Korg D8. The preamps in this unit I found ( in my opinion ) to be rather weak and lifeless, especially for guitar. I greatly improved my mic'd sounds by running my microphones through a Soundcraft mixer and using the balanced main outputs to input the D8. I bought a Presonus Blue Tube for guitar input - tremendous improvement. Yes, the quality of your preamps ( and of any of your inputting equipment ) makes a lot of difference in your recorded sound. But -- if you are in my position, there are limitations to what you can spend. And once you start spending, you can never stop. : ) One really good preamp will go a long way. You'll need a stereo preamp if you are recording keyboard or if you use stereo effects units. Oh, then you'll need a good compressor......
 
drumgeek - in answer to the question about which plugins to get (which I don't think anybody answered yet): all of the good multitracking software includes plenty of plugins to get you started. They generally include some kind of EQ, all of the basic delay and reverb effects and a handful of others (sometimes a couple of great big handfuls). There are also many free VST plugins out there if you search around.

As far as wasting time dealing with computer-related issues; that can be minimized from the start by duplicating the setup of somebody who's not having any trouble. Of all the various PC DAW configurations I've gone through in the past 2-3 years I've only run into serious problems a couple of times with specific pieces of hardware or software. The very latest system I've built (not to mention many others before it) has been rock solid since the first time I turned it on. I could give you a complete listing of parts and software and you could build the same great system, almost guaranteed to be as problem-free as mine unless some part is actually broken. I'm sure others here would be happy to do the same.

Having made it pretty obvious that I'm a fan of the PC DAW, I must also agree with the many people here who have said it's a matter of personal preference. I know a few people that should never even bother attempting to use a PC for recording, but in general I think you'd know if you were that kind of person.
 
Thanks, Diragor, for the tip on plugins. It is helpful to know that the basics would be included in the software package. What software are you using?
 
oh god hes gonna go with the computer based daw!

oh well i tried...
 
Thanks to all for the information. Wascal, I'm going for the Boss BR-1180 CD rather than PC-based recording, though I probably will take the advice of many and try mastering on the computer. In the past two months I've tried demos of just about every PC-based program I could get my hands on. I also tried out several different digital workstations. The one that comes the closest to what I want in one package is the 1180 CD. While the PC stuff is tempting, there are just too many practical limitations for me. I'm referring to myself and not the merits or drawbacks of the programs.
 
I'm using Logic, which you can read more about at http://www.emagic.de/ . IMO it's the most difficult to learn but it's the best once you figure it out. I'd scrape up all the demos you can, though - Cubase, Sonar, PT Free, etc.

If I may throw in another point in favor of PC recording; while standalones may seem simpler and faster on the surface for the most simple recording tasks, I can't imagine how punching and editing (like cutting and moving things around) could be easier than on a PC. I can select all tracks with one key, click on the ends of an eight measure verse, hit one key to slice all tracks and drag the whole thing to copy and paste it over another verse. I like to see all of that on the screen while I'm doing it and the limited displays and controls on reasonably-priced standalone recorders aren't as visually intuitive or informative. To each his own, but complex editing on a standalone seems like a chore to me. But then, my experience with them is limited. I'd investigate them further but I'm already very cozy in my PC world.
 
see thats the point!

i dont want to listen to music that has complex edits! yucko!

the thought of some weany sitting around and looping parts and dragging and dropping and pitch correcting and punching in and out is not my idea of an inspiring musical performance.

the most complex editing i do is fadeouts.

ugh! mechanical loopy music machine generated and automated with machines synced up and barfing out sequenced idiocy is repugnant.

that craps got no soul.

why cant you just sing and play a good song? doesnt that compute?

oh. then youd have to actually practice singing and playing. what a drag man.
 
wascal - I'm not necessarily talking about machine-generated music, I am talking about utilizing your studio capabilities in a creative manner. Surely you've heard Nine Inch Nails. The albums are complex compositions (with "soul", I would argue) created on computers. Have you ever seen them live? It's a completely different experience with more live musicians and less of the computer-generated stuff (though there certainly are still sequences playing).

For that matter, take Dave Matthews Band. They're some of the best musicians in the business but I'll be damned if they don't polish the hell out of their studio tracks using every means possible (like most bands these days) and overdub extra parts like crazy. They've got one guitar player and one woodwind guy but 4-6 or more tracks of those instruments on the CDs. Go see 'em live (or buy the live album) and tell me they did that studio stuff because they don't practice enough to pull it off with all live, continuous takes in the studio.

I used to think like you but now I can appreciate both methods. When I record my own material it's as close to live as you can get - few takes, no editing. With my band (Zappa or Bungle-esque stuff) we're overdubbing keys, percussion and drum machines, punching frequently and generally using our gear and our time to achieve the result we want to hear. Nothing wrong with that, you should try it sometime.
 
diragor--

first you were bragging about how easy it is for you to drag and paste ENTIRE VERSES!!!!!!!!

now you are talking about overdubbing as if that is something i should try???????


i am going to have to kill you!

mmmmmmmurderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i have heard of nine inch nails but i have never listened to any of their crap.

to me dave matthews is a dork and plays and sings dorky music for the enjoyment of dorky ppls.

well over 95% of all commercial releases are crap and they sound like crap and the crap is getting worse so dont try to pull that crap on me.

nave - soul has to do with feeling. human feeling. real life emotional human feeling. nonquantized nonmechanical nonsequenced unedited unexpurgated noncircumlocuted real life emotional human feeling.
 
The verdict...

Hey all,

I think a couple of threads similar to this have popped up since I posted this a while back. Just wanted to thank all who contributed.

After all this time and research, I finally decided to up my budget and get a computer based studio. I just purchased a new computer system and the Aardvark Q10/Sonar XL combo. I was really drawn to the Roland VS-2480 for awhile, but $ was the deciding factor.

Not naive enough to think that you all have been "chomping at the bit" to know what I decided, but I thought I would share with you that your opinions do count to us newbies and are very much appreciated. Wish me luck!

Rob
 
Korg D-1600

I've had the Korg D-1600 for about 3 months now and love it. I started recording the very night I took it out of the box. I question the compression unit inside. That's my only concern. I'm pretty much into computers (I'm a newpaper publisher and have been using macs since 1986) and understand that a PC (or MAC if your smart) will provide much more flexibility but you know, how much do you really need?
 
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