Patchbay and Power Conditioner

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PannyDeters

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Soon I plan on buying a rack, patchbay, and power conditioner.

I can get a Behringer patchbay for 30 or 40 bucks.

I can get a Rackrider power cond. for $20-30.

I can get a Furman power conditioner for around $50.

The question is, will the Behringer patchbay be crappy? I mean, should I spend double the amount on something else or is that gonna work pretty good?

The 2nd question is, will the Rackrider be good enough or should I spring for the Furman.

I have a very small and (ahem) frugal setup.

Tascam 414, ART Tube MP, Alesis Nanoverb, and RNC.
I plan on buying a Dual 31-band EQ and maybe a Zoom Studio next.

Thanks for any tips.

Danny
 
If you can, get the spec sheets on the power conditioners. Some Furman conditioners actually filter out noise, etc. from the AC supply, while some other brands are basically just rack mounted power strips and don't actually 'condition' the power.
 
Well at the risk of being called "elitist"... the truth about these cheap power conditioners is that they don't actually don't much for you.... they work for "household" use, but don't effectively reduce or help with interference or spikes for audio and especially digital audio applications.

People would be shocked to find out how little protection they have from those power strips intended for computers - their machines are at a definite risk!

The way to go, unfortunately, is getting into the balanced power transformers (Furman has 'em)... they will eliminate the spikes and provide a proper ground for studio applications. The downside, is you have to get your wallet out - these things aren't cheap.

I use the "cheap" conditioners as a voltage splitter for all the gear, but not much else.......

Bruce
 
Might want to check this thread:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=28096&highlight=power+conditioner

Many people believe an Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) is the way to go. They do three things: provide an even level of continuous power, protect against spikes, and if there is a power outage they keep your gear running (computer) until you can save your work and close down properly.

Nowdays you can find good ones for $40-$60. I use two of them, and they have saved my a couple of times already. Make sure you get a good one.
 
EXACTLY MY POINT....

BUT - you can't "get yourself a good one" for 40-60 dollars.... good ones are expensive ($500-$700).

A cheap UPS is not giving you any more protection than those surge-suppress power conditioners. It will give you brown-out protection, and let you power down safely. But are still "unprotected" from spikes and poor power.....

It's hard to justify paying hundreds for "just a power supply" - but especially for digital applications, it's ESSENTIAL.

Bruce
 
Blue Bear Sound said:

BUT - you can't "get yourself a good one" for 40-60 dollars.... good ones are expensive ($500-$700).

Bruce
Click to expand...

Maybe my $40 -$60 estmate was too low. I got mine on closeout. But I know a professional computer hardware/network specialist who disagrees with you, Bruce, on the $500-700 and the spike protection. He's the first person who told me about a UPS. In the USA (at least in California) you can now buy a fairly hefty UPS for around $100 that a couple of years ago would cost $200-$300 (the competition is fierce). I don't know what they cost in Canada, but at least here in California good ones are very affordable.
 
There are different areas of conditioning that are of concern.

1) Spike and surge protection...

2) low voltage (brown out) protection

3) line noise and interference

4) uninterrupted power supply

5) ground isolation

All four of these areas are distinct and the cheap units do not provide protection on all 4 of these (obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be cheap).

So a cheap UPS may provide uninterrupted power but not as effective surge protection or line noise and interference ptotection...

And none of the cheapies provide the grounding isolation needed by digital audio gear.... and computer (especially network) guys wouldn't know a grounding problem from their power supply if it came up and shocked their asses! They aren't looking at it from an audio transmission standpoint......

YMMV....

Bruce
 
Ok, Bruce. I'll buy into your knowledge. But what's the next best thing for those of us who can't afford the balanced power transformers? Is there a combination of cheaper gear that will perform reasonably well--say a combo of decent UPS and power conditioners like the Furmans?
 
Well -- I was researching this very topic recently and basically found that there is NO alternative... balanced power transformers are THE way to go - but yeah, they aren't cheap..............

Bruce
 
The other thing about cheap UPSs is that they probably won't have a sinusoidal waveform at their outputs: many cheap UPSs use simple choppers and put out what are essentially square waves. This can cause some problems when they are actually doing their job, because a lot of linear power supplies do not _like_ square wave inputs, and a lot of power supplies are not designed to handle the odd harmonic content of that waveform (you think you got RF problems _now_?). The results you get will depend strongly on the combination of equipment.

Cheap UPSs may work okay to hold up a pc (with a switching power supply) during momentary outages, but to properly power most audio equipment, you really want a sinusoidal power waveform. You get what you pay for: the components that do the waveshaping at the output of the inverter are large, heavy, and expensive. The 40 dollar Comp USA UPS is probably not going to have that feature. I use APC UPSs for all my mission-critical digital hardware- they do have pure sine wave outputs, but they aren't cheap at all...

I don't power my outboard gear with the UPS at all. Here in lightning country, I just have power conditioning (MOV-based surge suppression, and inline hybrid-pi RF rejection) for the analog-domain hardware. Only the digital stuff gets the UPS output, so that I power it down in an orderly fashion during an outage: if the power fails, I could give a flip about trying to finish the take...

Balanced power is pretty trick, and in some degenerate cases it can be the only way to solve certain audio problems. But it is not *necessary* in order to have a functioning, good-sounding rig in the general case. There are other (less expensive!) techniques that have been proven and used for years to achieve similar ends.
 
The Furman unit that is a real line conditioner and voltage regulator is $499,no battery back up though.

Skippy, How much do the APC models go for,and can you tell me where I can buy them.

Thanks
Pete
 
Well, mine are APCs (300VA), and they only cost about $50 each on closeout. Dimensions: 12" long, 6" high, and 4" wide--13lbs. They aren't small, but they aren't huge--probably not the "good" ones, although the literature that came with them says they put out stepped sine waves not square waves. I bought these at Staples.
 
http://www.apcc.com/products/back-ups_pro/index.cfm

They can be had for less than the list prices shown on the site, with a little shopping- about $600 for the 1400VA. I have a bunch of them- 1000, 1400, and 2200VA models, a couple of which (down in the server room) have extended-runtime battery packs. The 1000XL I use for my desktop machine here has an external battery pack, and will hold me up here for 4 hours... but that's paying work, not fun audio stuff! Can you tell I live in power failure country?

Anyway, the high power line do have lowpass-filtered, sinusoidal outputs. Unquestionably _much_ more than you need for your Roland studio-in-a-box, but good stuff just the same. The "stepped sine" from the lower-end APC boxes is still *significantly* better than a straight chopper output, FWIW...
 
tdukex,skippy,
Thanks for the info,it's much appreciated.

How does the APC compare to the Furman units.(AR1215,Pro series))

Do they adjust for low voltages as well as spikes?
I'm looking for a unit to power my small studio,filtering,power conditioning and voltage regulation.
How would I figure the size unit to buy.

The APC and Furman units look like two completly different animals.
I don't know how to decipher the tecnical info,so any help would be great.

Skippy, someday I hope to live again in power failure country
"Heavy sigh"

Thanks,
Pete
 
The APC Pro series do handle both overvoltage and undervoltage, and it's a good thing. Due to some brain-dead construction people, the line voltage here got cranked to about 145 for about 10 seconds one day. I lost about 10 lightbulbs (they got _amazingly_ bright for a second or two!) and two cheapo powerstrips (the MOVs fused and tripped their breakers), but no computer hardware: the UPSs simply went online and swallowed the overvoltage with no problem. None of the machines even farted.

They transfer onto battery operation at 103VAC on the low side and 132VAC on the high side, and when running on the battery they put out 115VAC nominal. So if you want power _stabilization_, you need something else: UPSs aren't intended for fine-resolution buck/boost regulation. They're really *only* intended to keep digital hardware alive.

The Furman power regulators really are completely different animals. The AR1215 you ask after is a multitap buck/boost transformer in a box: the output tap is chosen according to the input voltage, so it bucks or boosts the output voltage to the spec'd 120VAC level. It's an autotransformer, not a AC-DC-AC rectifier/inverter pair like a UPS, so its output waveform should be a very pure sine wave. It has Furman's very good RF noise filtering and overvoltage protection as well, so if you need to power your analog board, outboard gear, and converter boxes from very clean, stable power, it is arguably a better deal than a UPS.

However (unlike a UPS), it doesn't store any appreciable energy: so if the power fails, whatever is connected to it shuts down instantly. So for a small, computer-based studio (or a studio based around a digital everything-box, like the Roland, Fostex, or Yamaha units), power the digital hardware with a UPS, and the analog stuff with the stabilizer (if your power is bad enough to need one). The UPS will give you long enough to say "save song" and shutdown Windows when the power fails. And that's all you need it for...
 
tdukex said:
Ok, Bruce. I'll buy into your knowledge. But what's the next best thing for those of us who can't afford the balanced power transformers?
Click to expand...

If you live in an area with decent power service, some of the products suggested here are a little overkill IMHO. I also think many line conditioners are overpriced because they come in those fancy rack mount chassis with brushed aluminum faceplates.

Why not build one yourself?

Corcom makes nice AC dual line filter modules anyone can easily hook up and throw in a box. http://www.cor.com/catalog/filters/R/Default.htm For about $25 or $60 respectively either the 10VR1 (10A) or 20VR1 (20A) should work very well for basic home recording applications. One place you can order these from is Newark Electronics. http://search.newark.com/ Search for part numbers 81F4558 and 81F4559.

Wire a couple $1 Harris MOV's (Newark 09F2003) across the inputs and outputs of the filter and you have excellent surge suppressors which don't fry the first time they trip. Don't want to run down to basement to change a fuse after a surge? Pop a $10 circuit breaker in the box [Newark 91F9409 (10A) and 91F9411 (20A)].

barefoot
 
skippy,
Thanks again for the helpful info.
I appreciate you taking the time.
For now I'm going to get the Furman,Sam Ash just lowered the price to $399.
I don't have a computer setup yet,when I get one I'll just put a UPC in front of the Furman.

Barefoot,
Thanks for the links.I'd love to build one but knowing me I'd do something wrong and blow my equipment up!
Thanks anyway.

Pete
 
I don't know much about power conditioning....But in defense of the cheap power conditioners, they still do some good.

I have one in my control room. The main mic I use is a tube mic with it's own power supply which normally gets plugged into a plain surge protector in another room. Sometimes I notice a buzz when I'm tracking, so I get out my guitar rack case (has another cheap conditioner in it) and put that in front of the power supply and the buzz is gone. Computer surge protector's don't do that.

All I'm saying is if you're using a cheap surge protector, it's worth it to buy the 40-60 dollar rack deal. Keep in mind I live in so. cal and the power might go out once a year? (well unless they roll blackouts again)

Also...nobody responded to the behringer patch bay....I have one, so let me say this....

I HATE BEHRINGER.

(thanks, had to get that out)

The patchbay is actually pretty good. I can't tell you about sound quality, if it is an issue? because I can't tell the difference. It's nice, it works and the features I really like are that it's very easy to setup diff configs....normalled, half normalled, parallel and straight through. Most patchbays like these that I looked at don't have parallel which is pretty cool.

My complaint:

It's not TRS. I think I remember GC having a huge sale this month clearing out another brand (and I think it's trs) something like 20-40 dollars.
 
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