studioviols
New member
Providing Mix Histories
I noticed at http://www.nowhereradio.com/sluice/singles you are providing a 'History' of the different mixes with a short comment on what the primary change in the mix was, this is highly advanced mixology and we appreciate that.
I noticed at http://www.nowhereradio.com/sluice/singles you are providing a 'History' of the different mixes with a short comment on what the primary change in the mix was, this is highly advanced mixology and we appreciate that.
Pedullist
Stop it, I can't breathe
With headphones and excited as hell.
Woohoo! Warm sound in the beginning!
You surprise me again (and I barely expect anything - meant in a positive way, I mean I try to have an open mind towards anything new - so that says a lot
)
Excellent song, I love your non-linear thinking towards arranging. OK, I hate it when I'm trying to learn one of your songs, but it's very refreshing to listen to! LOL
The vocals in the loud parts could use more reverb. On the other end, the dry stuff works OK too...especially in contrast with the fx driven vocal sound of the verses. So skip that comment, don't listen to me....
Lovely guitars at 2:28.
Little nitpick (you always leave only little nits to pick, and there weren't any vocal cringes this time so.... )
The drumrolls need a more live/loose approach. I've learned some tricks the past few months. Do you use one sample only for stuff like this? Do you let the sample ring? I mean, is a sixteenth a plain sixteenth, or is a sixteenth a quarternote (lengthwise) snapped to a sixteenth-grid? If you make it a quarternote (lengthwise) you'll get better more natural sound in Cakewalk (using Soundfonts that is). And have you ever thought about playing at halfspeed in realtime and then switch it to the original tempo? With a quantize of 70 (if needed) it still sounds more natural than this snapped-a-little-too-closely-to-the-grid stuff.
Ending is awesome!
Great stuff as usual!
(if you want real bass....I'm here, buddy
)
Woohoo! Warm sound in the beginning!
You surprise me again (and I barely expect anything - meant in a positive way, I mean I try to have an open mind towards anything new - so that says a lot
) Excellent song, I love your non-linear thinking towards arranging. OK, I hate it when I'm trying to learn one of your songs, but it's very refreshing to listen to! LOL
The vocals in the loud parts could use more reverb. On the other end, the dry stuff works OK too...especially in contrast with the fx driven vocal sound of the verses. So skip that comment, don't listen to me....
Lovely guitars at 2:28.
Little nitpick (you always leave only little nits to pick, and there weren't any vocal cringes this time so....
)The drumrolls need a more live/loose approach. I've learned some tricks the past few months. Do you use one sample only for stuff like this? Do you let the sample ring? I mean, is a sixteenth a plain sixteenth, or is a sixteenth a quarternote (lengthwise) snapped to a sixteenth-grid? If you make it a quarternote (lengthwise) you'll get better more natural sound in Cakewalk (using Soundfonts that is). And have you ever thought about playing at halfspeed in realtime and then switch it to the original tempo? With a quantize of 70 (if needed) it still sounds more natural than this snapped-a-little-too-closely-to-the-grid stuff.
Ending is awesome!
Great stuff as usual!
(if you want real bass....I'm here, buddy
)
Guernica
Active member
Hey tom,
.....nice man! ......dude, some big ass ballsy vocs in this. This is another example of you making the synth bass work well..... sounds great. I like the piano pad, and its transition into the lead guit. Very nice choice of a harmony note on the lead part @ around 3:00. The guitars in general stand out proudly in this. .......nice! .....no bitches.....
.....great stuff here bra...
gw/5*****
.....nice man! ......dude, some big ass ballsy vocs in this. This is another example of you making the synth bass work well..... sounds great. I like the piano pad, and its transition into the lead guit. Very nice choice of a harmony note on the lead part @ around 3:00. The guitars in general stand out proudly in this. .......nice! .....no bitches.....
.....great stuff here bra...
gw/5*****
boydrj
New member
Whoa ... when it kicked in at about the :50 mark, I think all of neighbors woke up
Mix sounds real nice on this. The vocals sound like they could use a slight boost during the "quieter" parts.
I really like the harmony you are using on the vocals. Some real nice interplay with the snyths and guitars on this.
Very cool!
Mix sounds real nice on this. The vocals sound like they could use a slight boost during the "quieter" parts.
I really like the harmony you are using on the vocals. Some real nice interplay with the snyths and guitars on this.
Very cool!
studioviols
New member
Arc welding !
In the beginning as you fade in. IMHO, experiment with a 'plateau' fade in, bring it in from -INF up to about -21db fairly quickly and pause there for just 2 or 3 beats ... then fade in the rest of the way. The listener is 'hooked' because they can indeed hear that the song has started for sure ... but you still create that 'tension' element with the fade ... in ... You could have several plateaus ... :-| ,
, !!!
The lyric in the very beginning, from 0:13 to 0:16 is difficult to understand, and later around 0:30, I have a little trouble with the lyrics. On the second listening they are much more clear.
On the second listening, at 0:35, I want more of that guitar, rather than so MUCH bass ...
Well, I didn't really need these phones anyway ? Hot as hell at 0:47, the understandablitiy of the lyric here suffers a bit, it's getting covered up as the guitar and it's raging mids ... is very close to the same frequencies as the vocal. On the second listening the lyric becomes a bit more clear, so it's the mix, not the performance here.
I like, getting hit hard here ...
At 1:09, this single vocal is a little low in the mix, it's good, let it out on top of the mix. With a cleaner vocal and massive dirty stuff howling around it, I'm thinking about sending all the instruments to one bus, and compressing them all together, so you can watch a single meter for the instruments and then compare that to that fragile vocal at that point, so you can be sure and have that 'seem' to be on top ... you could try running this through the Soundforge smooth-enhance and enhance one degree.
Again at 1:30 you are flogging the vocal with these vicious mids in the guitar ... but that's cool somewhere in the tune maybe, but not all the time.
At 1:52, run that bit of the vocal track through an 'enhancer' and mix a dry sharpened track with a wet track. On second listening, things are of course much clearer lyrically. I like the pie-anner ... tasteful.
At 2:14, the guitar duplicating what the piano has been doing just before it is a nice technique, I could hear a string tremelo section here in this part, or just a wash, and yeah, the vocal is getting eaten up there ...
At 2:36, I could hear a string wash, heavy with high violins, soaring over this section somewhere, fading out at 2:58 as the vocal comes back in.
The mids in the guitar are shredding the vocal at 2:58, can barely understand the vocal, second listening it doesn't get much better with respect to understanding the vocal.
You know how I treasure the vocal for all of our efforts, and especially your creative use of backup vocals, they are golden ya know, even if they are more like depleted uranium here !!!
I KNOW, you have just written this and that's great, I mean wow, neat piece of music, and I know you have a long way to go here ? Can't wait to hear this with the typical Sluice shine upon it. Interesting piece of ... work !
Now please, I'm going to ask you to whore yourself and bump my violin track to the top for those that come on later this evening ... THANK YEW !!!
And thanks for sharing.
In the beginning as you fade in. IMHO, experiment with a 'plateau' fade in, bring it in from -INF up to about -21db fairly quickly and pause there for just 2 or 3 beats ... then fade in the rest of the way. The listener is 'hooked' because they can indeed hear that the song has started for sure ... but you still create that 'tension' element with the fade ... in ... You could have several plateaus ... :-| ,
, !!!The lyric in the very beginning, from 0:13 to 0:16 is difficult to understand, and later around 0:30, I have a little trouble with the lyrics. On the second listening they are much more clear.
On the second listening, at 0:35, I want more of that guitar, rather than so MUCH bass ...
Well, I didn't really need these phones anyway ? Hot as hell at 0:47, the understandablitiy of the lyric here suffers a bit, it's getting covered up as the guitar and it's raging mids ... is very close to the same frequencies as the vocal. On the second listening the lyric becomes a bit more clear, so it's the mix, not the performance here.
I like, getting hit hard here ...
At 1:09, this single vocal is a little low in the mix, it's good, let it out on top of the mix. With a cleaner vocal and massive dirty stuff howling around it, I'm thinking about sending all the instruments to one bus, and compressing them all together, so you can watch a single meter for the instruments and then compare that to that fragile vocal at that point, so you can be sure and have that 'seem' to be on top ... you could try running this through the Soundforge smooth-enhance and enhance one degree.
Again at 1:30 you are flogging the vocal with these vicious mids in the guitar ... but that's cool somewhere in the tune maybe, but not all the time.
At 1:52, run that bit of the vocal track through an 'enhancer' and mix a dry sharpened track with a wet track. On second listening, things are of course much clearer lyrically. I like the pie-anner ... tasteful.
At 2:14, the guitar duplicating what the piano has been doing just before it is a nice technique, I could hear a string tremelo section here in this part, or just a wash, and yeah, the vocal is getting eaten up there ...
At 2:36, I could hear a string wash, heavy with high violins, soaring over this section somewhere, fading out at 2:58 as the vocal comes back in.
The mids in the guitar are shredding the vocal at 2:58, can barely understand the vocal, second listening it doesn't get much better with respect to understanding the vocal.
You know how I treasure the vocal for all of our efforts, and especially your creative use of backup vocals, they are golden ya know, even if they are more like depleted uranium here !!!
I KNOW, you have just written this and that's great, I mean wow, neat piece of music, and I know you have a long way to go here ? Can't wait to hear this with the typical Sluice shine upon it. Interesting piece of ... work !
Now please, I'm going to ask you to whore yourself and bump my violin track to the top for those that come on later this evening ... THANK YEW !!!
And thanks for sharing.
powderfinger
New member
Pedullist said:
I would agree with this......maybe a touch more verb on the heavy parts......
very good guitar playing throughout.......the drums sound amazing.........very, very good production here.....
groucho
Member
Geez man, the amount of "arrangement" in your tunes makes me exhausted to even contemplate recording them... but it's your real strength in my opinion. This is tight as shit, performance/arrangement-wise, like all your stuff.
Great ending!
My usual complaint: vox are a hair too low for me - probably a half a db or so. Also, I wonder if maybe there isn't a touch too much low end. I have a feeling that when I got this in the car and really cranked it, it might get a little boomy. But I'm not sure about that - just thinking out loud.
Love the guitar sound you get. '
I *don't* want more verb on the vox.
Awesome.
Chris
but it's your real strength in my opinion. This is tight as shit, performance/arrangement-wise, like all your stuff.Great ending!
My usual complaint: vox are a hair too low for me - probably a half a db or so. Also, I wonder if maybe there isn't a touch too much low end. I have a feeling that when I got this in the car and really cranked it, it might get a little boomy. But I'm not sure about that - just thinking out loud.
Love the guitar sound you get. '
I *don't* want more verb on the vox.
Awesome.
Chris
David
New member
Cool tune. I played my first prs last night...i'm taking a 2nd mortgage on the house . Did you use the paul or prs for this? Great tune Tom, your vocals are "outstanding" on this. Production is sweet!
David
. Did you use the paul or prs for this? Great tune Tom, your vocals are "outstanding" on this. Production is sweet!David
bdbdbuck
New member
Dude, this is just OUTRAGEOUS! I love it! Gotta be my SLuiCe favorite. Outstanding guitar work throughout. Recording is crisp and clean just like it's supposed to be. I had my head down between the monitors at the end and was waiting for you to break into another tirade of some kind when I realized it was over LOL. I coulda listened to at least a couple more minutes. Great work Tom.
bd
bd
HevyD47Ca
New member
Tom!
You are the MAN. I agree with most of the above.
I personally like vocals that sound natural.
It's easier to convey emotion that way.
They say you are not using a real bass in this one.
If that is true........why?
Just curious, not really a mix comment or anything.
I would say to go ahead and bring the vocal to the forefront though
Dan
You are the MAN. I agree with most of the above.
I personally like vocals that sound natural.
It's easier to convey emotion that way.
They say you are not using a real bass in this one.
If that is true........why?
Just curious, not really a mix comment or anything.
I would say to go ahead and bring the vocal to the forefront though
Dan
MC Gitarz
New member
Sheeeeeesh - that is killer stuff!
I can't imagine creating a tune that's 'through-composed' as this! Awesome composition and arranging - personally I like the vocal levels. I gotta reach for some of them but I got them - it's worth the effort. I think that's a valid 'effect'. I've also been playing the living shit out of some of your other tunes - I'm particularly fond of "A Brother With Wings."
Pure talent - glad I know ya!
Milan
I can't imagine creating a tune that's 'through-composed' as this! Awesome composition and arranging - personally I like the vocal levels. I gotta reach for some of them but I got them - it's worth the effort. I think that's a valid 'effect'. I've also been playing the living shit out of some of your other tunes - I'm particularly fond of "A Brother With Wings."
Pure talent - glad I know ya!
Milan
SLuiCe
New member
studioviols- Hey Pat. Thanks for taking the time with the analysis. I'll certainly take all that in when I sit down with this again. I want to hear it on some other systems before I do that. I've suspected about half of what you're saying already. The other half may come to me with time, especially with the highlighting you've given. For now I should say that I imagine the vocal is a lot to take in on one listen here. I doubt I'd be able to absorb it all in even a couple of listens. It's not going to be a pop mix where everything is fed to the listener on a plastic plate and great big utensils. But at the same time, I don't want anyone to have to work so hard that they don't hear what I'm trying to say. Thanks again!
Pedullist- The drum samples I've been using don't require an actual duration to be set. A 1/16th tom is the same as a 1/2 tom. They ring out. I'm debating whether I want to call up an old drummer friend before I put this cd out. But my girlfriend has never commented on the drums, nor has any other non-musician. Now, don't get me wrong...I LONG for the real thing. But I'll probably wait and use a real drummer on the second album. This is the last song I'm recording for the first one. And it will probably be all fake drums. HOWEVER, the bass will probably be replaced by a real one where necessary. I'll keep you in mind for that over the next few days. What do you think of the bass notation, by the way? I know I would probably do things differently if I wrote the part with a bass in my hand, and I know I would like it better. It's also a lot more fun playing it. Anyway, we can pick all this up in emails...
Guernica- He likes it... hey Mikey! Thanks Mike. How's your baby doing? I just became an uncle last week. My younger brother had a baby. It was crazy holding her.
boydrj- Thanks man. I imagine my own neighbors are probably a bit unhappy too. When do we get something new from you? You're a really good writer. Let's hear some more...
powderfinger- Right now the vocal reverb debate seems to be at a draw with other listeners. I won't know until I've had a break from it, and a chance to hear it on something besides monitors. I appreciate the input on that and the other things! Thanks.
groucho- Thanks a lot. I suspect there may be a touch too much low end too. That's why I posted it now, because I have no good system for checking bass levels. It sucks. I just never ever know. I need someone who just knows to tell me. Or a system where I can tell myself. The guitar sound is something I've been working real hard with- experimenting with knobs on the head and with the position of the mic on the amp. I'm getting closer in the department. Anyway, thanks again.
freshears- I used 3 guitars on this one. The intro is an mono acoustic track blended with a stereo miked PRS track (sm57 and Octava mc102 on the amp). The heavy parts are done with the Les Paul. The guitars in the middle are all PRS, and the last section is 2 Les Paul tracks and 2 PRS tracks combining forces for one final stand against the madness. In general, I like the PRS for clean stuff and for most of my lead work. The Les Paul I like for agressive rhythms and aggressive lead work. Glad you liked it David! Thanks.
bdbdbuck- Sweet, man. Might be one of my favorites too. Thank you. I felt this one all the way through it. Every track felt like weight being lifted. Stress relief!
HevyD47Ca- RE: "vocals that sound more natural..." I'm definitely going for raw with the heavy verses in this. Not the big "I am a rock God" thing you hear in a lot of "Metal." I just want it to sound like it felt to sing it- relieving. As far as the keyboard bass, it's just what I use to write bass parts for now. I don't yet own a real bass. I borrowed my brother's cheap bass for a couple songs, but it really sounded crappy. It's one of those things I'm still working out in how I want to do things. Thank you very much for the feedback!
MC Gitarz-
Pedullist- The drum samples I've been using don't require an actual duration to be set. A 1/16th tom is the same as a 1/2 tom. They ring out. I'm debating whether I want to call up an old drummer friend before I put this cd out. But my girlfriend has never commented on the drums, nor has any other non-musician. Now, don't get me wrong...I LONG for the real thing. But I'll probably wait and use a real drummer on the second album. This is the last song I'm recording for the first one. And it will probably be all fake drums. HOWEVER, the bass will probably be replaced by a real one where necessary. I'll keep you in mind for that over the next few days. What do you think of the bass notation, by the way? I know I would probably do things differently if I wrote the part with a bass in my hand, and I know I would like it better. It's also a lot more fun playing it. Anyway, we can pick all this up in emails...
Guernica- He likes it... hey Mikey! Thanks Mike. How's your baby doing? I just became an uncle last week. My younger brother had a baby. It was crazy holding her.
boydrj- Thanks man. I imagine my own neighbors are probably a bit unhappy too.
When do we get something new from you? You're a really good writer. Let's hear some more...powderfinger- Right now the vocal reverb debate seems to be at a draw with other listeners. I won't know until I've had a break from it, and a chance to hear it on something besides monitors. I appreciate the input on that and the other things! Thanks.
groucho- Thanks a lot. I suspect there may be a touch too much low end too. That's why I posted it now, because I have no good system for checking bass levels. It sucks. I just never ever know. I need someone who just knows to tell me. Or a system where I can tell myself. The guitar sound is something I've been working real hard with- experimenting with knobs on the head and with the position of the mic on the amp. I'm getting closer in the department. Anyway, thanks again.
freshears- I used 3 guitars on this one. The intro is an mono acoustic track blended with a stereo miked PRS track (sm57 and Octava mc102 on the amp). The heavy parts are done with the Les Paul. The guitars in the middle are all PRS, and the last section is 2 Les Paul tracks and 2 PRS tracks combining forces for one final stand against the madness. In general, I like the PRS for clean stuff and for most of my lead work. The Les Paul I like for agressive rhythms and aggressive lead work. Glad you liked it David! Thanks.
bdbdbuck- Sweet, man. Might be one of my favorites too. Thank you. I felt this one all the way through it. Every track felt like weight being lifted. Stress relief!
HevyD47Ca- RE: "vocals that sound more natural..." I'm definitely going for raw with the heavy verses in this. Not the big "I am a rock God" thing you hear in a lot of "Metal." I just want it to sound like it felt to sing it- relieving. As far as the keyboard bass, it's just what I use to write bass parts for now. I don't yet own a real bass. I borrowed my brother's cheap bass for a couple songs, but it really sounded crappy. It's one of those things I'm still working out in how I want to do things. Thank you very much for the feedback!
MC Gitarz-
Sounds like you know what I'm going for there. It's one of those production decisions that simply isn't going to fly with everyone. I'll give it some time and see what I think after a break. I'm very glad you're digging the other tunes too. Nice to meet ya Milan.
R
Robert Mark
New member
Great arrangement, excellent tune! Sounds "earthy" ...thx 4 sharing.
Robert Mark
Robert Mark
M
Myx62
Member
No mix comments.... This is a great tune. Very creative and pro sounding. Very well put together. Good playing and vocals. Reminds me of Some old Max Webster. They were way ahead of their time.
Man, this could be the new sound of the 2000's
Good work....
Myx
Man, this could be the new sound of the 2000's
Good work....
Myx
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
My favorite part of the song was the little guitar licks/riff in the beginning at :34 - :47. Unfortunately that was all we got of that musical section and to me was by far the best part of the song. The guitar sound there was just great. Nice and clean..deep sounding, had a nice space in the mix, great depth, and bathed in BEAUTIFUL REVERB/DELAYS!! Then it went into your powerhouse mode.
All Very NICE. well done, chap. Vocals a little low in places and very difficult for me to understand in many places. Using the vocals as a texture, I'd suppose that it'd be OK then, but if you intend to have people understanding your lyrics, you need to fix that area.
I think your CD will be a great one. Let us know when it's available. I'm sure many will want one here as your music has proved to be a favorite and your recording/producer skills are really good.
All Very NICE. well done, chap. Vocals a little low in places and very difficult for me to understand in many places. Using the vocals as a texture, I'd suppose that it'd be OK then, but if you intend to have people understanding your lyrics, you need to fix that area.
I think your CD will be a great one. Let us know when it's available. I'm sure many will want one here as your music has proved to be a favorite and your recording/producer skills are really good.
C
caryindy
New member
Great sound and production. I love the dynamics in your music. The guitar sounds you get on your recordings are always pleasing to me. Great job man!
M
M.Brane
New member
Overall this is pretty killer.
I agree with studioviols' points on the guitars beating up the vocals. The guitar sound is good. Maybe a tad harsh in a few spots. I'm diggin' the flange on the vocal, but I think it may be a bit heavy. That could be a contibuting factor. Maybe try altering the delay time/sweep to make it sit better.
The bottom sounds good, although my Atecs are disconnected at the moment due to some rearranging in here. It's actually a bit boomy on my JBL's which means it's probably about right. Sounds a bit harsh in the mids on my "boom box" 4"ers.
The only thing I didn't dig was the bass tone. It's OK, but doesn't seem to fit the tune. Would like to hear something a bit more punchy i.e less low mids/upper bass. That might make more room for the lower end of the guitars, and vocals.
Hows that for nit-picking?
Love the tune.
I agree with studioviols' points on the guitars beating up the vocals. The guitar sound is good. Maybe a tad harsh in a few spots. I'm diggin' the flange on the vocal, but I think it may be a bit heavy. That could be a contibuting factor. Maybe try altering the delay time/sweep to make it sit better.
The bottom sounds good, although my Atecs are disconnected at the moment due to some rearranging in here. It's actually a bit boomy on my JBL's which means it's probably about right.
Sounds a bit harsh in the mids on my "boom box" 4"ers.The only thing I didn't dig was the bass tone. It's OK, but doesn't seem to fit the tune. Would like to hear something a bit more punchy i.e less low mids/upper bass. That might make more room for the lower end of the guitars, and vocals.
Hows that for nit-picking?
Love the tune.
dobro
Well-known member
Mm, yeah - you and Daniel Lanois. Similar moody atmospheric sound. The thing that Daniel never does is that great big dynamic jump like you do at 0.47 - he doesn't startle - I think it's because he smokes a lot of dope and doesn't like sudden shocks. The jump at 2.35 is much more manageable. The earlier one is like having a bucket of ice water dumped on you while you're dozing pleasantly in your swimmers on the li-lo. Consider your listener.
The sound's ace as usual. My favorite part of this one is that guitar work - I've never heard anyone do that little jiggy half-step figure you do, and it's wonderful how it alternates with the edgy spider-leg arpeggio in the other parts.
Time for an album, mixboy.
The sound's ace as usual. My favorite part of this one is that guitar work - I've never heard anyone do that little jiggy half-step figure you do, and it's wonderful how it alternates with the edgy spider-leg arpeggio in the other parts.
Time for an album, mixboy.
Toki987
Rock Steady
beautiful arrangement, mix, and performance. I loved the mutes you played with the delay tails in the middle section. This mix is a w i d e one too. Drums.., goodness, they are good. The vocal and the first guitar were sharing some high end eq at the beginning but that shifted quite a bit after the intro.
