panels advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter FALKEN
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FALKEN

FALKEN

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I am just about ready to start building. I think I am at an advantage because wood is dirt cheap where I live. I can get 3 or 4" wide strips 8 feet long for about 3 bucks each. I just have a couple more questions before I go for it.

first is that I don't have very much space to spare. I read on another post a while back (i wish I could link to it but I dont remember which one) somebody suggested cutting the panels lengthwise and making them 8'x1' across the corners. doing this would (1) save me an ton of space and (2) cover the entire corner. Ethan do you think this is advisable? surface area would be the same, but the distance from the corner would be less. it would require more wood though. (18' vs 12') this would be for bass traps.

question two is about these figures:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

the 703 beats out the 705 every time except for in the very lowest ranges and there it is minimal. it seems to me that the 703 might work better. or the figures might not be telling the whole truth? at 4" think the 703 is listed as absorbing more bass than 705.

since these things come in packages of 12, and I am doing 2 rooms, I was hoping to do (8) corner bass traps, and (4) gobos, made out of 1 package, at first. If It works and I am happy, I would want to do a lighter package for first reflection points and ceillings. But at first I can use the gobos for First reflection points when mixing (except the ceiling). To avoid them being too bulky, I was thinking about making them only 2 or 3" thick. I know the figures are much better for 4", but when you factor in the air gap, the figures for 2" are better than 3", and approach full absorption, on the link above.

So, I guess I have it pretty much figured out. I would just like somebody to point out anywhere I might have overlooked, or confirm that i got it. like all of this stuff my girlfriend is pretty much tired of hearing about it, so I would like to get it right on the first try.

thanks!!!
 
Falken,

> making them 8'x1' across the corners <

No, don't do that. Use the full 2 foot width.

> the 703 beats out the 705 every time ... or the figures might not be telling the whole truth? <

Exactly. 705 is definitely better, and here's the proof:

www.ethanwiner.com/density/density.html

--Ethan
 
ethan i trust your experience but you do realize that using the entire 2 foot width uses up eight times the square footage! I would really like to avoid this if the difference isn't so bad. i guess do you know how bad it would be, before saying "dont do it" outright? I also realize that there will be only 6" air gap instead of 12" at the largest part and this is probably what is making the biggest difference? thanks again.
 
Falken,

> using the entire 2 foot width uses up eight times the square footage! <

And your point is?

Seriously, do you want it good or do you want it small and unobtrusive? You can't have it both ways! :eek:

--Ethan
 
well, i dont think my girlfriend will let me have it otherwise! Even if I got rid of her, I'm not sure all of my stuff would still fit in the studio after putting up the treatment! Ethan, I want it to sound good! duh!!! I am just trying to be creative here, this is *home* recording after all... so if it comes down to full size or none at all it will probably be none at all. I could still do the ceilings and first reflection points with some thin stuff, but I dont think I can take up that much space so as to wall of the corners like that. according to the absorption numbers I linked to above, I should be absorbing half to 2/3 of the low frequences the way I want to do it. yeah, its not a full "1" but shit its not worth doing at all? nevermind then...
 
FALKEN said:
well, i dont think my girlfriend will let me have it otherwise! Even if I got rid of her, I'm not sure all of my stuff would still fit in the studio after putting up the treatment! Ethan, I want it to sound good! duh!!! I am just trying to be creative here, this is *home* recording after all... so if it comes down to full size or none at all it will probably be none at all. I could still do the ceilings and first reflection points with some thin stuff, but I dont think I can take up that much space so as to wall of the corners like that. according to the absorption numbers I linked to above, I should be absorbing half to 2/3 of the low frequences the way I want to do it. yeah, its not a full "1" but shit its not worth doing at all? nevermind then...
Do you have pics or a diagram of your space? Just curious as to why 2' panels wouldn't fit. Maybe reorganizing your space would help.
 
Falken,

> so if it comes down to full size or none at all it will probably be none at all. <

One foot wide is definitely better than nothing. But I agree with Hookie that you may be overestimating how intrusive two foot panels are.

--Ethan
 
yeah, I might be.

part of the problem is that at a perfect right angle. a 2' panel will requre exactly...1.41 feet or 17 inches on each side and I only have 13 inches in the back coners before I run into a door and closet respectively. and that is on the ceiling/wall corners. the wall/wall corners are totally not-doable due to the door and closet. so, I could do full sized ones on the front-wall corners in my control room and call it a day. and I could do them on all 4 corners in my jam room but I still think I would lose a lot of jam space for what looks like a small improvement...

I am going to finally post an mp3 later tonight so you all can have a listen and see if you think I really need this stuff or not. I will also be looking for advice in other forums (mics, pres). I really wanted to avoid posting because its personal shit but I dont see any other way of getting out of this rut...

maybe i'll also post some pics.
 
Try hanging a panel on the door and one on the adjacent wall like this. Then do the same for the other side to keep it symmetrical.
 

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Falken,

> a 2' panel will requre exactly...1.41 feet or 17 inches on each side <

Yup, so either shave a few inches off (versus removing a full foot) or do what I recommend all the time to my customers in the same situation: Angle the panel a little so it's not quite 45 degrees. A panel that's 2 feet wide and straddling a corner at 30 degrees beats a panel only 12 inches wide that's perfectly centered.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
A panel that's 2 feet wide and straddling a corner at 30 degrees beats a panel only 12 inches wide that's perfectly centered.

--Ethan

now I am going to have to ask why. if the surface area is the same, the only difference has to be the air gap. which is going to only be like a hair larger @ 30 degrees (i think). I haven't done trig in a long, long time!!
 
I posted mp3s in the mp3 mixing clinic. if you have time (not just ethan cuz i feel i have taken too much of your time already) please go listen and tell me if you hear any problems, other than lack of talent.
 
FALKEN said:
now I am going to have to ask why. if the surface area is the same, the only difference has to be the air gap. which is going to only be like a hair larger @ 30 degrees (i think). I haven't done trig in a long, long time!!

It's got twice the surface area because it's twice as wide.
 
apl, you are always trying to help and never read the whole thread. it would be the same surface area because i would make it twice as long.
 
FALKEN said:
apl, you are always trying to help and never read the whole thread. it would be the same surface area because i would make it twice as long.

Sorry, I missed that.
 
I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that if it was only 1 foot wide, it would resonate at a higher frequency, even if it were twice as long.

As long as we are talking about modifications to bass traps, I made some that were 2 foot by 8 foot. I know they are doing something, but I can't test what. I'm starting to wonder if I screwed myself. The problem in my room is right around 60hz.
 
Farview said:
I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that if it was only 1 foot wide, it would resonate at a higher frequency, even if it were twice as long.

As long as we are talking about modifications to bass traps, I made some that were 2 foot by 8 foot. I know they are doing something, but I can't test what. I'm starting to wonder if I screwed myself. The problem in my room is right around 60hz.

that makes a lot of sense. how do you know the problem is at 60hz? room calc or something you have tested or heard?
 
Falken,

> if the surface area is the same, the only difference has to be the air gap. <

Yes, I'm sure the gap depth is a factor. If you go floor to ceiling with a 2-foot wide panel you'll get even better results.

The problem with questions like this is there's no way to know for sure which is better or worse unless you do the whole job both ways and measure the results.

--Ethan
 
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