Painting a guitar.

[muttley600]

Thats pretty much what I thought. The Nitro thing carried on with guitars quite a bit longer than the auto industry as well I believe.

(can you get McFaddens across the pond? It is, without question, the best guitar finish I've ever tried.)

Yeh its what I use and like it a lot. It costs an arm and a leg to ship and I have to make my own arrangements because of current regs on shipping inflamables and combustables. The US and UK have thier own set of requirements quite a headache so I've been looking for alternatives. Still like the waterbourne stuff these days. KTM is good I find. The finish you can get with them has come on heaps in the last few years. There are a couple of options over here so its easier to get hold of.

Oh, someone mentioned heating finish prior to spraying. Gibson heats their nitro to about 115 degree (fahrenheit, not Celsius, and I could be off by a few degrees on that number). It helps the finish to flow out without the use of so much reducer, which makes the finish dry faster.

Boy thats hot around 41 degrees C or 105 fahrenheit. I wonder if its specially formulated for that temp thats dangerously close to flashpoint which from memory is about 55 degrees C Anyhow they are able to control the enviroment in their spray shop better than I ever could simply from a cost and quantity point of view. Mine only gets used about three or four days a month or as long as it takes me to laod up what ever I'm shooting, apart from the odd repair burn in. I like to shoot as much as possible while I'm set up. Hate cleaning down and mixing up small pot stuff.. a real drag. Much rather make sawdust.

I was thinking of trying the Behlen stuff because I can get that here. Have you used it in the past?? Is it just Nitro?? Same as McFadden??

 

[muttley600]

Except, apparently, changing the material the frets are made from.

but it aint going to give you more sustain. Just having more or less of it

 

[32-20-Blues]

but it aint going to give you more sustain. Just having more or less of it

Fair enough my friend, fair enough.

 

[TelePaul]

Fair enough my friend, fair enough.

You're still on this? 32 20 did you steal my joke for your signature? AHM A KILL YOU!

 

[Light]

I was thinking of trying the Behlen stuff because I can get that here. Have you used it in the past?? Is it just Nitro?? Same as McFadden??

I'm affraid I haven't tried it. We used to use Campbels before we switched to the McFaddens. We've got some friends who have used the Behlen stuff, and they seem happy with it.

Boy thats hot around 41 degrees C or 105 fahrenheit. I wonder if its specially formulated for that temp thats dangerously close to flashpoint which from memory is about 55 degrees C Anyhow they are able to control the enviroment in their spray shop better than I ever could simply from a cost and quantity point of view. Mine only gets used about three or four days a month or as long as it takes me to laod up what ever I'm shooting, apart from the odd repair burn in. I like to shoot as much as possible while I'm set up. Hate cleaning down and mixing up small pot stuff.. a real drag. Much rather make sawdust.

Yeah, they spray out of these big 5 gallon presure feed pots with some kind of (very well regulated) heating coils. Personally, I'll just use a bit of retarder and let it sit for an extra day, thank you very much.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[TelePaul]

Light this might be a related topic...could ya cast your eye over the Flaking Finish thread?

 

[muttley600]

Yeah, they spray out of these big 5 gallon presure feed pots with some kind of (very well regulated) heating coils.

They'd have to be well regulated. They make gun powder from nitrocellulose for gawds sake

I'll do a few testers with the Belhen then see how it goes

 

[Light]

Light this might be a related topic...could ya cast your eye over the Flaking Finish thread?

Done.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[gbdweller]

I was thinking of trying the Behlen stuff because I can get that here. Have you used it in the past?? Is it just Nitro?? Same as McFadden??

I've used both. Behlen is decent. I do prefer McFadden, though. Seems to flow out better. It also seems to leave a warmer 'glow' on rosewoods and similar woods, at least to my eye anyway. Not a huge difference between the two, so if you can get one easier or cheaper than the other, go for it.

BTW...the shellac thing is also great for warming up spruce tops before shooting nitro. Gives a great warmth and brings up any bear claw nicely. Don't use hardware store shellac in a can though. Get the real thing from a music supplier such as stewmac or lmi.

 

[jimistone]

I vote for reranch nitro in rattle cans.....IMO it is the best way to get pro results without owning pro painting equipment. I realize that it's been said on this thread that reranch is not the way to go but im going on my own personal experianced.

I sprayed my '66 strat with the reranch lakeplacid blue nitro laquar and could not have got a better job if I had have paid a pro $600 to do it.

I had painted it with dupont emoron poly in 1981 (the toughest paint I have ever seen). The hardest part of the entire refinish job was getting the 20 year old emoron paint off the guitar...it was a bitch to get off.
I primered and block sanded until it was perfect....then dusted on the lake placid blue. I clear coated until I could block sand without getting into the color. After it was smooth as silk I buffed it with dupont renuizit.

It's beautiful. What more could anyone ask for in a do it yourself refinish.

By the way...I can't tell any difference in the sound of the guitar.
It sounded good with a very thick poly finish on it and it sounds the same with a thin nitro finish...so I don't really buy "the finish effects the tone" stuff I have heard for years.

my 2 cents

 

[stetto]

I had painted it with dupont emoron poly in 1981 (the toughest paint I have ever seen). The hardest part of the entire refinish job was getting the 20 year old emoron paint off the guitar...it was a bitch to get off.

I've used Emron, but not on a guitar...A friend of mine was stationed aboard the USS Constellation in the late 80's, and his job was repaint work on F-14s. At that time Emron was the only coating they could find that defied the punishment of multiple G's ...So I'd talked myself into repainting my '77 Jeep CJ with it...Held like gorilla glue, but when it finally did start to come off, it came off in square-foot chunks...

By the way...I can't tell any difference in the sound of the guitar.
It sounded good with a very thick poly finish on it and it sounds the same with a thin nitro finish...

Nor do I with mine--From the tone when mine was simply 3-coated with poly, to when it was bare mahogany, to after I'd applied 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of Chrysler Gold Metallic, 3 coats of Chrysler red transparent and 7 coats of clearcoat. I won't argue the point, as I'm sure that sealing the wood that heavily may have an effect on other guitars, but I was told that there is much much more noticeable tone change occurance involved with severe modification of the body, as in cutting a horn off or planing a half inch off the face...

Eric

 

[jimistone]

I've used Emron, but not on a guitar...A friend of mine was stationed aboard the USS Constellation in the late 80's, and his job was repaint work on F-14s.

Yeah, that is why I used emron. I was in the service and had access to it. It was used to paint aircraft...so I already had the primer, the activater, the clear, and the paint booth and facilities...I just needed the paint if I wanted a color other than what they had for the aircraft.

I tried to get a proper primer for emron going onto wood...the "dupont dude" told me "you can't use emron on wood, so there is no correct primer to sell you". I used the zinc chromate rust fighting primer they had for the aircraft on base.

It held for 20 years and took 2 cans of heavy duty aircraft paint remover (and MUCH elbow grease with sandpaper) to get that stuff off the strat body.
(not bad for paint that "can't be used on wood")

 

[stetto]

Zinc chromate!! That's taking it a bit above and beyond, huh? I used to paint the galvy quanset MX missile maintenance buildings at FE Warren back in '89 & '90, used a lot of the zinc chromate and vinyl acid wash...the latter of which you definitely don't want to use on wood...

Used a lot of the Aircraft stripper too--That stuff is too hot to burn much more than a coat at a time...

Eric

 

[jimistone]

Zinc chromate!! That's taking it a bit above and beyond, huh? I used to paint the galvy quanset MX missile maintenance buildings at FE Warren back in '89 & '90, used a lot of the zinc chromate and vinyl acid wash...the latter of which you definitely don't want to use on wood...

Used a lot of the Aircraft stripper too--That stuff is too hot to burn much more than a coat at a time...

Eric

When I finally got all the emron off the guitar body and got down to the zinc chromate primer....I sanded it of and the yellow dye ("fullerplast" I believe it's called) was still in the pickup cavity and neck pocket...the factory markings from 1966 were still there too.
It was amazing.
20 years under zinc chromate and still just like it was when I fiirst pulled the pickguard off.

 

[CoolCat]

By the way...I can't tell any difference in the sound of the guitar.
It sounded good with a very thick poly finish on it and it sounds the same with a thin nitro finish...so I don't really buy "the finish effects the tone" stuff I have heard for years.

my 2 cents

yeah, from an Engineering artist standpoint its all impressive skills, the immacualte paint and coatings, polish... but I admit with a blind fold (and usually with a beer or two) I'm skeptical anyone can hear 1 micron of paint or whether or not it has been waxed? imo.

What is Tone?
Interesting article said Trower used to put his ear to the stock and would determine for him if the guitar was good.
I did this on several new equally priced Stratocasters at GC...and I'll be damned.. I actually could hear a big difference. Pretty easily noticed on a couple really dead-ones (like a thud!)
Most had a nice reverb sound.
But even then, I thought..thats without an amp? Who listens to their electric guitars with their ear to the horn?
once plugged in the amp with the bass and drums rolling...nah... its a hard sell that 1 micron of paint wax is going to be detected by anyone.

I can undertsand the cracking and delaminating and shine and depth and all that makes them durable or visually different...
but not the sound to the humans. I'm sure many pro's like Eric Johnson would flame the hell out of this.

hell most bar gigs I've seen, by the end of the night, you can fart in a mic and they don't care.

 

[chazba]

I had a squire that I had repainted in about '90 with a GM automotive metallic silver two step ( clear over color) Absolutely the best looking guitar I've ever had. The silver metallic would take on any color that the stage lighting put on it. And because it was a squire I never worried about beating the snot out of it. I have talked about this axe on several other threads. Wish I still had it.

chazba