Painting a guitar.

[jpw23]

I just finished doing my guitar with Krylon spraypaint. I've gotta say, no one in my band could tell that it wasn't a factory finish (well, aside from my other guitarist who knew what it looked like previously). It hasn't taken any scratches yet, even after a 10 hour practice session yesterday with my belt buckle rubbing against it, and I assume it hasn't even fully cured yet. If you want a finish that will be stunning and probably last forever, go with Light's method above. But if you want a nice looking finish on a budget that gives good results for the effort put in, I'd recommend Krylon and a bit of patience.

You're gonna have a hell of a hard time if you ever want to strip that stuff off....I just re-finished a guitar for a friend that painted it with krylon....damn near had to burn it off.

 

[stetto]

I said;

Car finishes don't weather-check as well as the good old lacquers, so don't use 'em if you want your axe to eventually achieve classic status...

Then Muttley;

They can if you apply then to wood. Auto finishes are hard, high build fast dry and slow cure. The gas off for months and are not ideal for guitars. I very much doudt that any manufacturer would use auto finish. Even if they use Acrylic it would be a slower build with lower solid content, and faster solvents to aid gassing off. The Kramers I have seen do not use Auto finishes. Just get the stuff from Stew Mac it is designed for guitars and costs very little extra.

My '88 Spector NS2A (built when Kramer owned the company) has been through the ringer climate-wise, going from cool and humid in Evansville IN to 113 in the shade and arid in Tucson AZ literally overnight, from El Paso TX to Boise ID to Bellview WA to Spokane to Colorado Springs to Tulsa OK, followed by points in between and beyond. In that time and through all those climate changes our guitarists' axes were also along for the ride, Washburns, Fenders, Gibsons...Those guitars suffered intense weather-checking, the Spector, which I still have, is still waiting for it's first crack, even though after I left the road the bass spent 3 years in Wyoming followed by 15 years in Phoenix, and the last few up here in MN...The only blemishes were inflicted by me and the band's light tech ...My setup guy, a luthier, says the finish (at least the clear-coat) is definitely auto finish, and is far more resilient and less prone to checking than is nitro or lacquer. Yes, auto finishes are extremely volatile and cure is time intensive, but the lustre and longevity, on my bass at least, is more than proven to me...

I will say, however, that the work involved in applying an auto finish without ruining your lungs and having the patience for an adequate curetime before handling the guitar is restrictive, though even musical instrument specific coating manufacturers advise a good month of cure as well...And for the DIY-er who just wants a new finish without all the health precautions needed to enjoy a respiratory and neurologically sound future with which to use that newly painted guitar, rattle-can technology has really leapt ahead in the last few years...

Eric

 

[muttley600]

Stetto, I'm not saying you can't get a good finish with auto paints you can. I have seen guitars done with them that have stood the test of time. Just that they are not right for the job. Something that is right for the job is easily avialable and cheap. You may have a guitar with auto finish that is as good as the day it was buffed. But, and its a big but. I've finished hundreds of instruments and seen thousands through my workshop. Most if not all finish issues have been as a result of incorrectly chosen or applied laquers.

To get a good finish with auto paint you need to put too much on. There is a very real probability of the finish cracking, checking, crazing, blistering and/or blushing in the future.

The one piece of advice I would give to anyone thinking of having a go at finishing whatever you choose to use is practice on some junkers first. Go ahead and use household brands or auto finishes if you want. I honestly wish everyone success with them and I hope you get good results but be aware of the possible pitfalls if you do. No self respecting luthier would use them when vastly superior purpose made products are avilable quickly, cheaply and at the end of the phone. As with all things in life the choice is yours...

 

[Light]

I very much doudt that any manufacturer would use auto finish.

Modify that slightly by saying MODERN auto finishes. After all, Nitro was originally an automotive finish.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

so where should i buy the paint from?


my uncle has an actual spray booth, with a ventalation van that sucks out everything that doesnt make it on the cars that he sprays. its quite impressive.

If you want colors, go with the Stew Mac Waterborne finish.

But if you uncle is smart, he probably won't want you spraying it in his booth. He CERTAINLY wouldn't want you to spray nitro.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[danny.guitar]

Is the process of painting an electric the same/similar to painting an acoustic? Or is going to get an acoustic painted just a stupid idea?

I was wanting to get my acoustic painted (obviously I wouldn't try doing it myself).

Is this something you can get done or would I look like an idiot going to a shop asking how much they charge for a paint job?

I always wanted a white acoustic, or maybe a black one. I wouldn't want it to look cheap though.

 

[muttley600]

Finishing an acoustic is even more critical than an electric. With an acoustic the whole instrument plays a huge role in the way it sounds. Especially the top. The way the top vibrates colours the sound, add a heavy or badly applied finish and you will potentialy harm the sound. A white acoustic is an option but I would seek professional advice about getting it done if you value the instrument. The sound of an electric can be coloured by the type of finish an acoustic 10 times as much if not more,

 

[tom18222]

i was going to let him spray it, not me. i wouldnt trust myself. he told me he used nitro once and he got wicked sick.

 

[danny.guitar]

I would definitely want it to be done professionally, and not mess up the sound. I'm sure it would be really expensive, but I wouldn't mind as long as it was done right. The problem is, knowing if the person knows what they're doing or not.

Any ideas on a rough estimate on how much it would cost to have an acoustic painted? I'm sure it varies a lot between shops, but any ideas?

I'd want the whole thing painted. Headstock, body, back of the neck, etc. Just solid white.

 

[Milnoque]

If you really want to grow as a musician one of the fundamental requirements is understanding the instrument you are playing. I urge every musician to read up on the design and construction of his/her instrument. Finishes are a very important aspect of the way sound is produced. Light and Muttley can teach you a great deal more if you already have a basic understanding of what they're talking about.

Do not booger up a classic guitar.

If you are going to refinish an instrument anyway, you can perform a useful service to this forum. Record before you start, making note of the signal chain and every setting. Record again when finished using the same setup. Post the results (include pix and info on materials). You might even try recording without any finish for comparison.

This would be interesting for any modification you make.

Do not booger up a vintage guitar.

If you've got junkers around to play with do it. Try coating one with latex house paint or pickup truck bed liner paint and post the recordings.

Do not booger up a rare guitar.

Read the safety stuff on the can. Besides the flammability issue, some of this stuff is very toxic. Make sure you have good ventilation and use respirators even with the safer stuff.

Do not booger up a professional guitar.

Please, Please, Please, Leave the work on fine instruments to the professionals.

 

[muttley600]

Any ideas on a rough estimate on how much it would cost to have an acoustic painted? I'm sure it varies a lot between shops, but any ideas?

The only real answer to that would be to take it to few luthiers and get some quotes and ask some important questions. What finish would they use? Why? Also ask to see some instruments they have done similar work on or at very least get a reference or two. I have a few guys I've built for or done a lot of setup work who are happy to endorse my work. And no it will not be cheap there is a lot of work in refinishing a guitar correctly.

 

[muttley600]

Modify that slightly by saying MODERN auto finishes. After all, Nitro was originally an automotive finish.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Yes true, I always thought Gretsch used Nitro. Haven't examined a "Cadillac Green" one though.

 

[cephus]

Finishes are a very important aspect of the way sound is produced.

I beg to differ. If we're talking about crummy strats, teles or other solid bodies, it could have no perceptible effect - depending on style of music, of course.

I mean, you'd have to be brave or stupid to scrape the finish of your les paul custom and want to paint it sea foam green. I was assuming that the guitar in question was fairly replaceable and disposable before even undertaking such a project.

With that assumption, I really like art guitars and people who want to personalize their axes. I have never seen a picture of a guy playing a factory finished guitar that I thought was as cool as one with stripes and stickers and a quarter screwed to it.

I appreciate that there are guys capable of some really good work here. It takes alot of effort. I'm not saying it's impossible to be good at building, finihsing AND playing a guitar, but I have to say, I always focused more on the last thing, with a healthy dose of looking cool on the side.

 

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by Milnoque
Finishes are a very important aspect of the way sound is produced.



I beg to differ. If we're talking about crummy strats, teles or other solid bodies, it could have no perceptible effect

Whatever you do to modify a guitar will have some effect on the tone it produces. Whether you can percieve it is another issue. Often you may not be able to hear any difference. The problem is that you are leaving a lot to chance. The trick is to be in control of any modification so you can predict the likely outcome. Part of that is how much it may change the tone of the guitar. True the effect of refinishing an electric has less influence on the tone than say an acoustic or archtop, but it can still have a dramatic effect. Junker or top of the range that still applies. Sure I agree its great to look cool but I also wanna sound cool. I have enough problem with technique in that department.

 

[Milnoque]

When Van Halen exploded on the scene Eddie was playing guitars he had painted using rattle cans of ordinary spray paint. Tone? Absolutely!

The bumper stickers didn't destroy the sound of "Rock The Casbah".

Cephus is right about the limited effect of finish on the tone of a solidbody. I just wonder why you wouldn't want to work with finishes that give you the best chance of success. It's not just about tone. Its also about sweat. Its about protecting the wood and surviving the shrinking and swelling caused by temperature and humidity. Its about how the skin slides around on the surface. Its about durability.

If you have a Squire and a vision, go for it. I encourage it. I'd love to see what you come up with.

But,
If you want to do the best job, Read up on it. Use the right materials. Do the preparation carefully, and expend the patience and elbow grease.

 

[Light]

Is the process of painting an electric the same/similar to painting an acoustic? Or is going to get an acoustic painted just a stupid idea?

It is a similar process, but there are a couple of issues. First of all, to do it right you need to - at the very least - remove the neck, and probably the bridge as well. Finishing an acoustic with the neck in the body has all sorts of problems, the biggest of which is the cost of future neck resets goes up considerably, and the avalible quality goes down. It is almost always nessicary to do some touchup around the heal when you do a neck reset, but it becomes ten times worse, and almost impossible to do invisibly, when the neck is finished in. So, refinishing an acoustic right means doing it with the neck removed (the same is true with an electric, but at least on a bolt on neck it is easy to do).

The bigger problem with refinishing an acoustic, though, is a sonic one. The finish on a guitar contiues to off-gas forever, though obviously the percentage of solvents becomes infitesimally small after enough time. None the less, they do continue to off-gas, and as they do, the finish gets harder, which means it becomes more resonant (or, more acurately, it becomes less of an impediment to the transfer of energy). If you refinish an instrument, you loose all those years of off-gassing. Now, I'm not saying you go back to square one in terms of the sound of the instrument, but you DO loose an awful lot of the "age" to the sound. And even a few years will make a difference in the age of the instrument. Hell, a few months, really, will be noticable at the begining of an istruments life. This is an issue with both acoustics and electrics, but it is much more so on an acoustic, particularly on the body.

So, how much would it cost to refinish an acoustic white? I would estimate it in my shop at a MINNIMUM or $1500-2000. If you want it done right, that is what you are looking at, and even at that we would probably try to talk you out of it.

As far as I'm concerned, it simply is not good idea.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[danny.guitar]

So, how much would it cost to refinish an acoustic white? I would estimate it in my shop at a MINNIMUM or $1500-2000. If you want it done right, that is what you are looking at, and even at that we would probably try to talk you out of it.

As far as I'm concerned, it simply is not good idea.

Wow, with that, I could get a brand new guitar worth 5 times as much as the one I have now...and get one that's already white.

Oh well, it was an idea anyway.

Do you know of any good acoustic guitars that happen to be white? Just thought I'd ask. I looked around and only saw one Yamaha, and a Behringer that was like $30 I didn't even know Behringer made guitars...

 

[Light]

Yes true, I always thought Gretsch used Nitro. Haven't examined a "Cadillac Green" one though.

Yeah, they are. Remember, the alternatives to Nitro didn't start to get used in the auto industry until after House of Kolor came up with Acrylic Lacquers, which was sometime in the mid-late `50s, and it took some automotive builders a while to make the switch. I mean, look at the Fender Custom Colors from the early sixties; they were nitro, made by Dupont, as an automotive finish. Now, it is certainly true that if you are going to use automotive nitro for a guitar, you need to thin it out a bit, and you should probably add some Butyl Celosolve (which acts as a retarder), but then I add retarder to McFadden's, which is intended as a guitar finish. (can you get McFaddens across the pond? It is, without question, the best guitar finish I've ever tried.)

Oh, someone mentioned heating finish prior to spraying. Gibson heats their nitro to about 115 degree (fahrenheit, not Celsius, and I could be off by a few degrees on that number). It helps the finish to flow out without the use of so much reducer, which makes the finish dry faster.

Not that I'm holding up Gibson as a paragon of great guitar finishes or anything...


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[32-20-Blues]

Whatever you do to modify a guitar will have some effect on the tone it produces.

Except, apparently, changing the material the frets are made from.

 

[notCardio]

. A friend of mine used to heat up cans of PJ-1 on the space heater before he shot black motorcycle frame parts and it worked great. that is, until he was out back of the shop doing a few pinch hitters and the widows blew out of the place. It was strange than nothing caught fire and there was supprisingly little paint anywhere.

FOOM!

I can't belive I'm getting nostalgic about pinch hitters.

At least he had the sense to step out of the shop.