PA System questions

[dagwood]

nady might have a bad name but ive used them and yamaha's and hear no difference

I would find that hard to believe unless you were comparing the very lowest lines of Yamaha. I'm sure they have some models with cheap drivers and piezo tweeters. Actually, any $100 speaker will not sound much different than any other $100 speaker. Many compromises must be made to meet that price point. But, to say that a $100 Nady monitor with a piezo horn is equal in sound quality to, say, a Yamaha Club series V with a 12"LF and 2" compression driver is completely wrong. I won't even go into the explanation of how much speaker efficiency plays into getting the same volume with lower wattage. Now, given, there are MUCH better monitors out there than the Yamahas, but I'm talking about things that the average Joe can afford (I can't afford Radian monitors either). Yes, the Yamaha's are MDF (as are the Nady's), but in a non-touring environment, they should last a looong time. That's my only gripe with the Yammies. Plywood construction would have been a better choice.

The difference in a $100 Nady and a $300 (even less used) Yamaha Club V is night and day. There is no comparison. And when L&L's group starts getting better gigs, the Yamaha's will still be cookin'. The Nady's probably won't last 3 months if he and his bandmates like to set their Marshalls to 11 to get their "tone". That's a whole 'nother issue that I won't get into...

 

[dagwood]

PS. Dagwood, i'd take up your offer of the PA but I doubt you'd be willing to ship it to Ireland for the night!!!

Yikes!!! Uh....yeah....that's a little too far for me to go for a gig.

Ireland is quite a haul from Tennessee.

Save your money, and buy quality equipment that will actually sound good and last a long time.

You might not believe this, but it's true. It's actually cheaper in the long run to buy good stuff ONCE, than it is to buy cheap stuff every 2-3 years and replace it every time it takes a dump right in the middle of your show (and it will).

I'm not trying to be a gear snob. I'm trying to help you save your hard-earned cash. Too many of us (notice I included myself) have thrown enough money away on bad purchases to even want to think about it. I've got a garage full of stuff I don't use to prove it.

Have fun...
Stacey

 

[spectrescape]

I was told by someone there that NADY makes them. As cheap as Shure 57 and 58 are I'd just get those.

Damn - yeah, if Nady makes em, I don't think I'd go for them. But I wonder if the same is true for the condensers though? If so, my opinion of Nady might need to change, cause I love my Carvin condenser.

 

[boingoman]

Damn - yeah, if Nady makes em, I don't think I'd go for them. But I wonder if the same is true for the condensers though? If so, my opinion of Nady might need to change, cause I love my Carvin condenser.

If it works for you right now, don't worry too much. Carvin does make some decent stuff. Their low-end PA stuff should be avoided, though. At some point when you are into it, go audition some other condensers, if you can, and make your decision then.

 

[apl]

Actually, I've been thinking about it, and I can't really complain about the two 58 knockoffs and one wireless mic of Carvin's that I have.

'Cept for the NADY thing...

Oh, well.

 

[spectrescape]

At some point when you are into it, go audition some other condensers, if you can, and make your decision then.

I had the opportunity to use a Neumann U87 a few months ago - I am now ruined.

/end hijacking of thread, with apologies.

 

[Elmo89m]

I would find that hard to believe unless you were comparing the very lowest lines of Yamaha.

The yamaha's i used came with the big powered mixer bundle package...i think they were 250 each out of the bundle however

 

[earworm]

ok,
i did my first live PA set a few weeks ago,
was for 500 people...

i had 2x 1200 watt , nexo sp15 FOH speakers,
decent quality, but small speakers,
it was loud enough for vocals, and to add snare, kick, sometimes some guitars

we had a very small budget, so didn't have a shitload of mics and compressors, so most of the time i didn't even let the bassgut come trough the FOH, the guitar cabinets were LOUD ENOUGH most of the time,
sometimes i even had to ask a band to turn down their gut amp cause they were allmost louder than the FOH !!!!


so if u wanna amp something, pick vocals, kick, snare,
leave the rest, give some more power on bass and gut amp,

but 100 watt won't take u NO WHERE,
i think that if u go below 2 times 400 watt u're lost, even for 200 people,
u gotto be able to UNDERSTAND what the singer says,
and if u got too low power u'll push the system, have distortion and rotten feedback


my suggestion: these are average renting prices in belgium:

rent a powered mixer that gives about 2x400 watt (€25)
two FOH speakers, lets say PEAVY SP15 (€60)
two monitors (i prefer active so u don't need amp) (€50)
3 shure sm57's : 1 kick 1 snare 1 vocals (€5 per mic)

and then really really try to find a BACKUP mic, cause one day u'll smash a vocal mic, or it'll get stolen, u want an extra mic, lets say for a guest stinger or backup plan.... i even had a junk ass cheap shitty mic save my ass on a live gig !!!!


now...renting is NOT my favorite option,
i prefer to buy AS MUCH gear as i can,
so get the mics yourself, rent the FOH speakers,
and i'd suggest you buy two "cheap" active monitors,
maybe each speaker should give atleast 250watt rms so u can
hear yourself onstage...

small active monitors can be found everywhere, for cheap,
quality can be an issue, if u go for cheap, try to add a 31 band graphic EQ later...helps ALOT against feedback...and i hate feedback...
so u can put those monitors in your car, don't need stands for them,
u can use them on your rehearsals for vocals, use them for monitors on live gigs, and even, if u wanna give a real real small live gig,
set those monitors up as a FOH


do lots of gigs, rent some stuff in the beginning, always rent other stuff so u can compare quality, after a while u'll be able to buy some tiny things that help u get a better sound....

 

[boingoman]

ok,
i did my first live PA set a few weeks ago,
was for 500 people...

i had 2x 1200 watt , nexo sp15 FOH speakers,
decent quality, but small speakers,
....

Decent quality? Nexo PS15?

Those are some of the best 15/2 speakers you can get, and one of my faves in the category. Unbelievable boxes.

They are $4500 US/pair. There are maybe 5 other speakers with that format that compare to it. This shows, though, that you can rent great gear for a fraction of the purchase price.

Good advice and info.

 

[Love & Light]

Thanks for the help earworm. some excellent advice in your post.

 

[earworm]

ok, little edit,

i think the NEXO PS15 are 500 watt each.... no ?
and not 1200 watt each ?

i'm not sure anymore, anyway, they're incredibly loud,
and we all know that Loud isn't everything,
they're powerful,
too bad i didn't have the subs .... i heard systems with subs on it,
nice nice nice

and expensive,
once again, my advice, go rent them, have a long chat with the dude that rents them, get a bargainprice and use them for all your live PA stuff

ps, and try to Blow them up its not easy

 

[onstrike]

The only thing I will disagree with is that getting an "all in one" system is a good idea. If you look about E-bay, or even some of the more popular gear stores online, you can get good prices on all kinds of gear. It is limited to how much you are willing to spend though. The PA system the band I commonly work with, a 3 piece punk band, has costed them maybe 2,000 total, they got the gear they needed one part at a time, for good prices. then as time progressed, upgraded piece by piece, to a total of about 8,000 investment.
K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid!)
Look, go over what you really need. Some bands need a large console, some can get by with a mixer/amp. Some need large speakers, some can get by with stand speakers. Some need a million processors, and some don't need any. Evaluate what your band's needs are and buy to suit them. You don't have to take a bank loan out, just have to be patient enough to look around for the best deals. Then if you need to get a better system, upgrade a part at a time until you get the sound you like.

See, there is the things you need, and the things you want.
You need mics, you may want all SM 58s. But you can get the beta greens for half the price. Get the greens, and save till you can get the 58s.
Everything is like that when you are just starting out. Get what you need, then work to what you want.

That's just my idea, I may be wrong.

 

[apl]

I like this Carvin powered mixer. $650, three 300W amps and built into a road case.

 

[oh_the_blood]

theres a 120 watt behringer with 4 separate inputs for like 200 bucks.

 

[GmanJeff]

My band was in a similar situation (Mesa and Marshall guitar amps; vocals through a Behringer 120 watt keyboard amp for rehearsals) , and we purchased a Behringer PMH880S powered mixer (400w/channel) and a pair of Peavey TLS 5X mains. The Berry ran us $315 and the Peaveys $495, including a pair of On-Stage speaker stands, from 8th Street Music (using a 10% discount coupon I received after a previous purchase from them). The only other thing we needed was a pair of 50' Speakon to 1/4" speaker cables, which we got from Pulsar for maybe $50. We haven't yet purchased monitors, and are debating between unpowered, running off of one channel witht he mains off the other, or powered so as to keep both channels of the head for the mains. Anyway, our feeling was that if the system didn't work out, we could always sell it and recoup much of our cost. In the meantime, we'd have the system for rehearsal and to try at a gig or two. If we rented, we'd probably be getting the use of more expensive gear than we'd actually want to buy eventually (we're just a part-time band, not in it for the $), and the rental fees wouldn't take long to equal the cost of the inexpensive gear we purchased. There's also the hassle of picking up and returning the equipment, or the added expense of hiring a engineer. For our intended applications of small restaurants, pool parties, private parties, and so on, our system seems perfectly suitable so far. Sure, a way more expensive system will play louder, and maybe more accurately and/or cleaner, but standing alone, without such a system for a direct comparison, there are no obvious deficiencies in our set-up. In fact, it sounds pretty good to us. I don't really think that most audiences are going to perceive a qualitative problem which would be attributable to our gear - if they don't like our vocals, I'm confident that'll be due to the actual quality of the singing, and not due to the mics (EV N/D767a), the speakers, or the P.A. head.

 

[earworm]

i hate feedback and recently helped at a gig where they also had nexo ps15's as foh and can't remember what as stage monitors,
NO eq's on the monitors, auch, feeeedback,

a friend of mine starts touring in little clubs, they're investing in in-ear monitoring, thats way awesome, it does cost a bit,
but hey, NO FEEDBACK ! and wireless for the artist,
can run around , don't have to be careful where u stand...

i'm gonna start checking out more of that...hearing yourself on stage is important, but it can be difficult if u wanna do it with cheap solutions...

i find miking stuff, giving the audience an acceptable sound not so difficult,

but pleasing the band onstage? my god , thats terror....
since i work with underground bands and there's never money to pay for FOH system AND seperate monitor system '(with two engineers)
..gotto do it all myself with a little assistant running trhough the club ..listening, telling me that the people in front are getting deaf and stuff,
i even let him tweak the FOH eq a bit by time so i can just focus on the meters and faders....

i constantly ride the faders , especially of the vocals, can't help it,
maybe i need a leveller for the vocals... don't know...

any guys got expierience with levelers instead of normal compressors on live vox?