Overall volume too low.

[Ars Moriendi]

After I mix the tracks on cakewalk, I usually have to lower them to avoid clipping, so my mixdown tracks are usually very near the clipping threshold. But when I export them to wav and convert them to mp3, I notice that the overall volume of my mp3 are noticeable lower than other "real song" mp3s. What could be a possible reason for this?

Thanks.

 

[bennychico11]

well first, if you have to lower the faders after recording in order to avoid clipping, then you're recording too hot from the start.
second, the reason it isn't as loud as the other songs is because it hasn't been professionally mixed/mastered. this is a highly debatable topic of whether making a louder mix is important or not...it has to do with the percieved notion of "louder is better".

 

[Massive Master]

BETTER is better...

Louder is nicer - Sometimes...

Somewhat louder is an acceptable compromise - Usually...

Too loud sucks most all of the time.

If you're desperate for sheer volume, do a search on digital brick-wall limiters. There are some freeware plugs that could be worse... Just keep in mind that when you go louder than a mix "wants" to be, you are damaging the mix in most cases. How much damage you're willing to live with is the question.

 

[Ars Moriendi]

Thanks for your reply.

The thing is, each individual instrument is far from clipping, most of them actually either boosted by 3db or normalized. It's the sum of them all that make the overall clip indicator jump, hence the need to lower the hotter ones.

And the thing is that sometimes it gets painfully low. I'll upload a clip I made of "Demon of the fall" to show you how bad it gets. You almost need to crank the player, and when the next song comes in, BOOM!

 

[metalhead28]

Are you doing any kind of compression, editing or anything to control the peaks in your audio tracks? Your headroom is determined by the peaks but the percieved volume is determined by the average volume of the tracks.

 

[Massive Master]

The thing is, each individual instrument is far from clipping, most of them actually either boosted by 3db or normalized. It's the sum of them all that make the overall clip indicator jump, hence the need to lower the hotter ones.

Even if you have all your tracks peaking individually at -15dBfs, when enough of them hit that level together, you're going to clip eventually. Tracks that peak at that level (even lower) during mixdown is pretty normal.

 

[Ars Moriendi]

The only operations I do on Cakewalk are Normalization and increase/reduce 3dB.

Would the bitrate I use when converting to mp3 affect this?

 

[metalhead28]

Sounds like you need to learn alot about compression and apply that to your mixes.

 

[metalhead28]

I personally would almost never use those three functions you mentioned. Use your faders. And if you have clipping at the master you never need to make something 3 DB louder.

 

[Ars Moriendi]

Sounds like you need to learn alot about compression and apply that to your mixes.

Yes I do. I didn't realize it would help me on this particular problem. The only thing I can do with compressors is to improve my clean tone, and that's pre-recorder.

And I only make tracks louder when the wave looks noticeable weak. Also, what other ways do you have to boost a particular track's volume when it's too low? I always record at the clip threshold, maybe some of my POD's patches have too much noise? (If they do, it's not audible, at least)

 

[Farview]

Don't normalize your tracks.

Once everything is mixed, it needs to be mastered. Compression and limiting will bring the overall volume up.

 

[Ars Moriendi]

Don't normalize your tracks.

Once everything is mixed, it needs to be mastered. Compression and limiting will bring the overall volume up.

I've always sucked at used those frequency and threshold - based filters. Where can I learn more about this?

 

[KenekeBarnes]

Don't normalize your tracks.

Once everything is mixed, it needs to be mastered. Compression and limiting will bring the overall volume up.

I've been hinting at the same problem over on my newbie thread about clarity. All the track massaging I do -- normaliztion, compression, EQ -- comes from having a very low mix, despite making the input as hot as possible. As a result, I get the mess that I describe about in my thread.

Sorry I don't have any answers...

 

[Farview]

I've been hinting at the same problem over on my newbie thread about clarity. All the track massaging I do -- normaliztion, compression, EQ -- comes from having a very low mix, despite making the input as hot as possible. As a result, I get the mess that I describe about in my thread.

Sorry I don't have any answers...

You have to set the compressors to tame the transients. If your compressor settings have too long of an attack time, it will make the transients bigger and your overall volume will go down.

Getting the inputs as hot as possible is not necessary and have very little to do with ending up with a loud mix.

 

[lurgan liar]

what i do is set all the individual track volume levels so that the transients go to about -12 db ....

then anything that needs to be made a little bit louder i will compress....

i usually compress the kick, and snare add a noise gate and stick a parametric EQ on them ....my drum overheads are usually pretty loud on their own ....

i also compress the bass guitar and EQ it so that it sits nicelyy with the kick drum ...

distorted guitars i will roll the bass off them and if they aren't loud enough i will make a duplicate track and compress it and set them on top of each other ...that usually beefs them up a bit ...

vocals - doesn't do any harm to add a bit of compression ...lol

then once i have the overall track's master volume not clipping i will bring the master volume down about 6 Db ...

then i create a stereo track of the enitre song and use T Racks to Master it lol .... yes T Racks is a toy ...but it makes a hell of a difference to my mixes

oh and by the way i am by no means an expert ...

 

[Ars Moriendi]

what i do is set all the individual track volume levels so that the transients go to about -12 db ....

then anything that needs to be made a little bit louder i will compress....

i usually compress the kick, and snare add a noise gate and stick a parametric EQ on them ....my drum overheads are usually pretty loud on their own ....

i also compress the bass guitar and EQ it so that it sits nicelyy with the kick drum ...

distorted guitars i will roll the bass off them and if they aren't loud enough i will make a duplicate track and compress it and set them on top of each other ...that usually beefs them up a bit ...

vocals - doesn't do any harm to add a bit of compression ...lol

then once i have the overall track's master volume not clipping i will bring the master volume down about 6 Db ...

then i create a stereo track of the enitre song and use T Racks to Master it lol .... yes T Racks is a toy ...but it makes a hell of a difference to my mixes

oh and by the way i am by no means an expert ...

That was intimidating... What's a transient?

I usually do a mixdown of all tracks to 2 stereo tracks in order to export the song, should any edition be applied at that stage?

Thanks for your help!

 

[lurgan liar]

That was intimidating... What's a transient?

I usually do a mixdown of all tracks to 2 stereo tracks in order to export the song, should any edition be applied at that stage?

Thanks for your help!

u could stick a limiter on it and that will bring the volume up a bit ....

just use any limiter plugin and drag down the threshold ...but be careful ...if u try to make it too loud it will start to sound crappy!