Outdoors Event- What Mics To Use?

[stevieb]

Gonna be as detailed as I can, here:

My group will be playing an outside concert in July. Yeah, it's gonna be hot, and I do not mean the scene. I am hoping to record the concert, in it's entirety. Know that I am a neophite at this.

THE GROUP: 8 mature adults, playing some combo of the following instruments (some songs may be everything, some may be less):
from 4, sometimes 6 acoustic guitars, each will have a budget to mid-level pickup provided by player.
alternately 2 sometimes 4 electric guitars. Each will have amp provided by player, ranging from small, clean, quality SS, to Fender Pro Reverb to Roland Jazz Chorus. All have line outs.
1 mandolin.
Djembe, snare, hi-hat, congas, ride cymbal, one tom, kick drum.
French horn.
Harmonica, played either thru house PA, and/or very small tube amp (5 watt) or Fender Deluxe Reverb.
Electronic keyboard, probably with amp as keyboard player's monitor.
5 to 8 vocals, with Shure SM58 type mics (two actually are SM58's.)

HOUSE PA: 16-channel Soundcraft main board, supplemented with Behringer Eurorack UBB1002 with 6 to 12 (I hate the way Behringer and others twin stereo channels and calls them two channels...) giving from 21 to 29 channels). Live sound board- no direct outs from each channel.
QSC power amp, 500 watts per channel, 1000 watts bridged mono (as I recall- hard to get to to double check- close enough for folk music...)
Audio Technica power amp, 150 watts per stereo channel
Samson power amp, 125 watts per stereo channel.
Modest but adequate speaker arrays left and right of stage.
Decent selection of effects, including reverb units, compressors.
Power amp, 150 watts, for stage monitors.
12-channel and 16-channel 100-foot snakes. No snake splitter, prob. won't find time to make one or money to buy one.
I do have another 16-channel board that has direct outs from 8 channels- it's on loan 4 states away and may not be back in time- but I could get it if really advantagious. Cant recall brand at the mo.

VENUE: Public park, with concrete stage approx. 50 feet wide, 30 feet deep. Expect about 100-300 person audience, who will be picnicing, thus spread out.

SOUND CREW:
Brady- head sound tech. Expert training and experience, primarly in stage play area, sound and lighting. Strengths include very good overall knowledge, more of a stage tech generalist than a live sound specalist.
Steve (me) owner of most of the gear, listed above. Know a bit more than what it takes to be dangerous, but no pro. Hardest working man in show business now that James Brown is gone, try to make up in hard work what I lack in expertiese. Member of the group, so can't be behind the board during show (probably a good thing...) Defacto group leader/cat herder. No formal training in this, self-taught and advised by David (see below.)

I am taking the whole day off from other duties to set up system. Brady is taking a half day off.

Hillary (possibly) mid-20-s college senior. Very level headed but not yet committed to this project. Home for the summer (her mom is my GF) Some training and experience via education in Vocal music, etc. at Florida State U.

David (possibly) late 20's recording engineer/sound tech/stage tech. (Full discosure- my son.) Training as RE. May not be here, as he has possible work obligations.

RECORDING GEAR (Don't laugh, we have what we have, no money to get better stuff here.)
Tascam DP-01 (two of these) (NO phantom power)
Tascam DP-01FX (has phantom power)
Tascam US-122 (has phantom power)
(all four of those will record in no more than two channels at at time.)
Bellari tube compressor, two channel.
Several tube pre amps, mostly Presonis and similar quality.

AVAILABLE MICS
Most SM-58's dyanamics will be used as vocal mics for the band (see above), may have two or three left over.
Condensers and other recording mics: (in no particular order)
M-Audio Pulsar
MXL V67
MXL V58
Alesid AM52
Audio Technica AT4047
Audio Technica AT4033
Shure Beta 56A (dymanic)
Audix F12 (dymanic)
Audix F10 (3 of these, dymanic)
Audix f15 (2 each.)
(Audix mics are a drum mic set.)

My thinking is to run the Tascam DP-01 off the main board, as best we can, and run the Tascam DP-01FX using two condenser mics, in stereo, about 15 feet off the ground on a single studio boom mic stand. Thus, we don't have to monkey with pre-amps- but we got 'em if needed. Same with the Bellari tube compressor- if two or more of youse guys (no, I am not from Brooklyn) say I sould use it, I got it.

Also of a mind to set some of the condenser mics on stage for ambiance sounds/ stuff that the board might otherwise miss, running them thru a mixer (other band members have 4 to 6 channel boards) and then on to the main board and thus to the Tascam DP-01 recorder.

Am I crazy? Or am I onto something here? Advise? I want to do this, both for the experience and to try to provide a decent product to the participants. Nothing will be sold for money, btw.

Thanks.

 

[Daisy]

In my opinion, you have three options, in order of preference:

1) Have Dave do it. You focus on the show and the performance. The guy who knows what he's doing gets to record. Everyone wins.

2) Forget it. Hang out, drink some beers. Play some music. Enjoy life.

3) If no direct outs or channel inserts are available for the Soundcraft board ... then rent something that has them. Mic everything, and run the inserts / direct outs to your recorder.

If this is still not an option ... then see #2.

That would be my best advice.

 

[omtayslick]

I vote for #1 and #2.

 

[Paj]

Outside? WINDSCREENS! Dynamic mics! If you think that wind howl on a dynamic is bad, wait until you experience all the neat things that gust can do on and to a condenser! But, hey, it's you're money and your show. I'm sure that the techs you mentioned are already aware.

The July sun? Oh, yeah, that'll "age" your condensers rather quickly. I generally lend my responsible friends condensers when they really need them but NEVER for outside use (I violate this rule for myself with a stereo pair of Naiant MSH1o mics---they seem to be able to take it).

Paj
8^)

 

[stevieb]

Thanks for the few but thoughtful replies so far- please, keep 'em coming.

David (he much prefers to be called David, not Dave- trust me on this one ) will def. be working a music festival in New Orleans on the 11th, and thus is not available. Thus, having him do it is no longer an option.

I hadn't thught about sun damage to condenser mics- thanks SO much for that tidbit- I guess the con's stay home (or could I rig an umbrella over them? I'm serious...)

Hadn't thought about wind noise, either- only con's I can really put wind screens on are the smaller pencil-mics There may be wind screens existant for big con mics, but I have never seen them and anyway I don't want to shell out what must be big bux for them for one use.

Inserts are on the board, as I recall- how do I control the level of signal that comes from them and goes to the recorder? Remember, my recording gear will only record in two channels. I am thinking run them thru another board, then to the recorder?

Love this resource, thanks folks.

 

[bubbagump]

What about a plain old ordinary14th row of a Phish concert boot leg rig? A couple SDCs (spend the $10 on wind screens... otherwise be ready for all sort of rumbly crap) on a stereo bar in an XY to a 2 track DAT or the like?

 

[Daisy]

Remember, my recording gear will only record in two channels. I am thinking run them thru another board, then to the recorder?

As ambitious as I'm sure you're feeling right now, Keep in mind that shows like this should be FUN, first and foremost, rather than a headache of little things that you have to multi-task.

With that said, I really think you need to rent a multi-track recorder, and run all of your inserts out to that and record each mic to it's own track. That would be the easiest thing for you to do, and in the end, willl offer you the greatest level of control of the final mix.

If you can't do that, then you might consider doing what Bubbagump suggests. Can you do a separate AUX mix and run that out to your recorder? Yes ... but do you really want to put yourself through all of that, or do you want to have fun, play music and enjoy the afternoon?

 

[warble2]

We were thinking about recording a gig of ours recently. We're using a Soundcraft Series 2 (24 channel) as our FOH board, and were thinking about using an Alesis HD24 as our multitrack.

One of the things we really thought about was the fact that it would've probably been best to have another sound guy running a sub-mix board into the Alesis. Running direct off the Soundcraft might have worked OK, but levels aren't "set it and forget" it really at any gig.

If you don't have the right personel to do it right, scrap it for now OR do a two-track recording as bubbagump threw out there.

 

[Sloan]

Rent two Mackie ONYX 1604 boards and use them as your FOH / monitor/ and recording rig.
That'll give you 32 channels, 8 aux, 8 subgroups.

everything gets recorded pre-eq and fader so it's just raw tracks for mixing later.

bring a laptop and maybe an external drive to record to. a normal 4-5 hour gig weighs in around 20GB of wav files.

mic everything up just like you were playing a big club and setup some stereo mics far away to catch the natural 'verb and audience sounds.

 

[stevieb]

UPDATE:Would have gone with two small-diaphram condensers in an X-Y config, plus coming off the board with groups of all guitars and keys to one channel, bass to another, and all vocal mics to a third- all thru a Behringer mixer that has 6 XLR ins. That would have all been mixed down to two tracks, L and R, to the DP-01.

Got most of that sorted the last rehersal, but day of the show, I didn't get to record, I was WAY busy just setting up the stage and sound. Gale and I figured I worked NINE STRAIGHT HOURS, full bore, both physically and mentally, to get everything worked out.

Oh, well.

 

[Daisy]

... day of the show, I didn't get to record, I was WAY busy just setting up the stage and sound.

I'm not going to say "I told ya so," because I'm not the type to gloat.

 

[stevieb]

I'm not going to say "I told ya so," because I'm not the type to gloat.

And yet you just did.

You disgust me.

 

[stevieb]

Tried to put a smiliey after my last comment, but I can't reopen it.