op-amps/mods

  • Thread starter Thread starter funkytonk
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funkytonk

funkytonk

push it to the limit
Hey folks, I am interested in trying new op-amps in my tascam 224 mixer. What I would really like to find is a good set of reviews online somewhere for different op-amps. Looking for a knowledgable source with good detailed reviews on how each one changes the sound.

Any suggestions?

Also first hand experience from any members of this forum would be appreciated. I am interested in hearing what type of op-amps you use, and any other cool mods you have done. My gear that I want to mod is again, a tascam m-224 and also a tascam 48ob 1/2" r2r.

Also if this has been covered in other threads please point me to those.

Thanks
Tim
 
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it would depend on what is in there to begin with and what its doing.
 
Take it from someone who has designed op amps into a lot of commercial products plus in-house test equipment for our company. The ideal op amp is easy to define but impossible to make. There are thousands of different types on the market, each with its own compromise of characteristics which are fairly well documented in its 10- or 20-page data sheet. You can find loads of these on, for example, Linear Technology's or National Semiconductor's websites. You would have to understand the circuit and the new op amp's characteristics to be able to make a good match. Simply reading reviews, if there were any, probably would not do you any good when you're trying to come up with drop-in replacement upgrades. Just because someone says "I'm using op amp X and it sounds great!" does not necessarily mean it will work in your circuit if your equipment is a different model.

Op amps are not simply a matter of good-better-best, or an easy tradeoff between quality and price. There are many factors that can even make the choice seem impossible when you consider a lot of different ones and see virtually all the ones you pinned your hopes on eliminated for various reasons, like that they can't handle the voltage range you needed, inputs can't go all the way to ground in a single-supply configuration or the output can't go low enough, there's no compensated version that's unity-gain-stable for low-gain applications, there's no quad version available to drop into the spot that's on your circuit board and meets the requirements for all four sections of the circuit that quad takes care of, the circuit is different from what is required for stable undistorted operation of the particular op amp you're considering, etc..

The tricks to good operation won't necessarily all be in the data sheets either, meaning that once you've gotten experience with a particular op amp and learned by trial and error how to make it do its best under a particular set of conditions, you won't be so quick to switch to a new type. You also need to understand input noise voltage versus input noise current, consider biasing needs (not just input, but sometimes output bias affects things like crossover distortion), possible latch-up situations you could run into from input inversion if the input voltage goes outside the permissible common-mode range in a circuit that was designed for a different op amp, and of course the more obvious things like gain-bandwidth product, slew rate, output drive capabilities, and even whether the power supply can feed a slew of higher-performing op amps.

There are other things besides op amps anyway that can add to the noise and distortion in a circuit. Even something as simple as ceramic chip capacitors which we assume conform pretty well to the simple capacitor law volts=coulombs/farads turn out to be poorly behaved if their voltage rating is not much more than the application calls for. X7R dielectric is not nearly as great an offender as Y5V, but can still produce objectionable distortion if the designers tried to cut costs or reduce the size too much. The April 12, 2007 issue of Electronic Design News (EDN) had an article starting on page 77 about the nonlinearities of ceramic chip capacitors.

If I haven't convinced you yet to leave it alone, one op amp I like for audio applications where I can supply at least 12V is the LT1124/1125/1126/1127 family. But even if the price were $.25 each instead of $10 each, it still wouldn't be right for every application.
 
If I haven't convinced you yet to leave it alone, .

Not yet :), but I do appreciate the response. You obviously know alot more about op-amps than I could ever wish to.

When you say "upgrade" I am not sure that is the right word as to what I am trying to accomplish. I am looking to experiment with a a few channels on my mixer, not all channels, and an upgrade in the sound isn't my goal in all cases. Maybe "tweak" is a better word. For instance, say that I can get an awesome low frequency response with this Burr Brown type "XXXX" op-amp but it wouldn't be good for recording things like guitars and such.

I know there is a lot to take into consideration when changing these out. You can learn alot from data sheets and interenet research, and narrow the field down from thousands of families of op-amps to just a handful that would really work in my application.

The reason I bring this topic up on this board is because it seems like a fairly Tascam friendly board and I was thinking that there has got to be some folks on here who have messed around with op-amps on the same equipment I have. The Tascam M-200 series mixers were not that uncommon.

As for reviews of op amps online. I have found reviews where people have run tests on op amps with simple amplifiers with very few components to mess with the sound. I find it useful as long as you translate it into what you already have in your signal chain. So I am just looking for more resources. I found some just searching around on google.
 
For instance, say that I can get an awesome low frequency response with this Burr Brown type "XXXX" op-amp
Op amps don't have a limit to the low end. They go down to DC. Assuming there aren't any transformers, the mixer's low-frequency response will depend on capacitors, plus any intentionally added filters to keep subsonic wind noise from the mics out for example.
but it wouldn't be good for recording things like guitars and such.
It appears that you're thinking of the op amp in a way similar to microphones, where one mic, say an AKG D224E produces a sparkling clear acoustic guitar sound but would not particularly be the first choice for a kick drum. It doesn't work that way with op amps. The "mechanisms" involved are different from what goes on in a mic. If the basic circuit needs can be met (like stability, adequate input and output voltage range, no latch-up, sufficiently low input offset error, etc.), then in general you'll want low noise and good frequency response and slew rate. These, along with the op amp's high open-loop gain, can actually make the op amp outperform the supporting components in the circuit. I may be forgetting something that would come back to mind if I were to look at the circuit and application in detail; but if you get a part that does these things, it will be good for all instruments and voices (if the surrounding parts support it adequately), and it won't be a matter of "This op amp really captures the fire of a blaring trumpet but sounds lifeless on vocals."
 
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