On a budget and need advice quick!

[SampleThisET]

In the past, we spent big $$$$ to go into a studio and record. We put together a demo album and had way too many copies made... and went broke doing so... expensive leason.

I have been playing around with Acid Pro and Cake Walk for awhile and I want to start exploring setting up a "beginners" home studio. I have a decent PC with an Aureal Vortex 8810 Audio (WDM) sound card. For now, I am going to continue using Cake Walk and Acid Pro... I'll add other programs and upgrade in time.

I went to Guitar Center today and asked a sales person to help me pick out a midi keyboard. I left with a Korg EMX1 music production station. Hmm... was I tired of listening to the kid banging on the keyboard next to us and just bought something to get out???? Anyway, here's the deal... we plan on putting a crap load of money into a home studio over time, starting mid-next year or so..., but for now, I just want a dang keyboard with a crap load of tones and beats and a beat machine... I'm sick of searching for the right beat or loop! So, before I'm stuck with this machine I want to return it and get something I can use. I was looking at a Triton keyboard with a ton of stuff on it, including a beat machine. The only thing I needed to get with it (for immediate gratification) was a suggested midi (mini somethin or another) with the sale they where having and talking the salesman down, I could have got out of there with both for $850. I really only wanted to spend about $600 on a keyboard...

Can anyone reccomend a keyboard set-up that would be somewhat easy to set-up and be around $500 - $800...keep in mind that I can easily get about $100-$200 off about any keyboard in there and a bit off other stuff, like a midi and cables.

I noticed that there where cheaper plug and play midi keyboards and inexpensive sample/beat machines.... would this be just as good, they seemed ok?

What am I looking for in a keyboard? I know I want it to have as many sounds as possible but what else?

Beat/Sample machines?

Alot of the keyboards have the ability to plug in a mic... is this ok for playing around but able to... play what you did on a cd for say...Ma?

Although I do not "play" the piano, I have entire songs in my head... and I can usually pound em out with a decent keyboard. So, really, this is the way I would like to start... please keep in mind that I want to get my feet wet and have some fun too.... this will be replaced later.

We mostly play with Dance, R&B, Hip-Hop, Remixes of stuff (popular music for us to personally enjoy and our own creations) but explore and enjoy all types of music.

Or, is what I got ok...it's fun and I have been able to figure it out... I am somewhat mechanically inclined... but how do I get the music from the station into my studio programs??? What goes between the station and the sound card?

Please ask any needed questions to get the answer I need!!! I need to return this if neccesary.

Thanks for the help!

 

[manning1]

save your money samplethis on a keyboard.
i use powertracks(pgmusic.com) to do all sorts of "beats" etc using the built in audio editor and CD's of high quality samples.
it gives me 48 tracks to build all sorts of "beats" including a built in
drum machine in software. plus various "Stylez" i can use.
plus you can build all sorts of "patternz"....
plus also check out the vsc software dxi synth that pg sells for 20 bucks. talk to the users on the powertracks forum about it.
some real pros on there that know way more than me.
apparently its really cool and has something like god knows how many synth sounds built in.
peace .

 

[tedluk]

I've never played the EMX1 as this isn't my genre, but maybe I can offer some other advice that will be helpful.

First off, is your computer powerful enough for audio work and do you have a decent soundcard? If so, then you might consider going the softsynth/midi-controller route as there are ways to get very inexpensive software (as manning1 noted) as well as freeware. In addition to PG Music's offerings, there is N-Tracks. I've never used either of these so I can't speak to their capabilities, but lots of people seem to have good success with them. There are also products like Cakewalk's Home Studio which aren't too expensive and offer an upgrade path into their Pro products when you are ready.

As far as what to look for in a keyboard...That's one of those things it's difficult to answer for someone else. For me, the first thing is whether I like the feel of the keyboard itself. If I can't play it, it almost doesn't matter what it sounds like.

Different keyboards are targeted at different kinds of music. The Triton, along with the Yamaha Motif series and Roland's Fantom units are designed to be workstations capable of producing a wide range of styles. They have sampling capabilities (most of them anyway) and built in sequencers. Some even have CDR's for burning your own CDs. The Triton series offers the broadest range of different keyboards. Read up on the differences before making a choice if you go that direction. The biggest knock on the Triton series would be that it's been out for a number of years and the sounds aren't really fresh anymore. The other two series aren't going to fit anywhere close to your budget so I'll leave them alone.

You can find a number of different keyboard controllers anywhere from less than $100.00 to well over $500.00. Which one? The only way to decide this is to look at their various options and then, most importantly, PLAY them!

A good controller, with a decent soundcard (the Delta 1010LT from M-Audio is popluar) and a budget sequencer will fit well within your budget. Then go out and try some of the many free DXi and VSTi's and have fun!

Hope that helps!

Ted

 

[jonhall5446]

One thing I have to add is -

Never walk into guitar center and ask for suggestions on big purchases. Not that every Guitar Center is an idiot, but a lot of them have no idea what the hell is going on. They make commission on stuff they don't know much about. Just thought I would offer that advice. Never go there unless you know what you are looking for. Do your shopping and learning about the product online. That may be why you are here, but I thought it would help

Good Luck!

 

[SampleThisET]

Ok, here's what I got...Now what?

Thanks for all of the advice. Oh, and jonhall5446, NO FREAKING KIDDING, those guys at Guitar Center have less knowledge than I do... (that means they have got to be complete idiots!)... but it did kinda work in my favor in the end...

Well, first off, I know a lot of people think that I'm wasting money on a keyboard, but I have a much easier time tapping the keys... I can actually tap the beat that is in my head... ya know what I mean? I would like to learn how to use the programs to add to it though! I'm still checkin out all of them, thanks!

Ok, I went back to Guitar Center and completely chewed the guy out in the middle of the floor. I didn't raise my voice or get mean, I just simply told him that if he wanted to make a decent commission, he should spend some time and listen to what a person is asking for... not to mention the fact that if he had listened, I would have spent a lot more money on the things I really wanted and all the crap that I need to go with it! Of course, he rolled his eyes and screamed across the floor to his manager.

Even though I have no idea how to make what I got work, from what I can tell online, I got a pretty good deal.

I got a Korg Triton LE, supposedly, it retails for around $1600, they had it on sale for $999, I got it for $750, tax and all.

So, here’s what I have… how do I make the most of it?

-Korg Triton LE 61-Key
-M-Audio MidiSport Uno
-Cakewalk Home Studio 2004 – This is new to me. A friend that swears by it, gave it to me. He walked me through setting it up, but he has the attention span of a fly. It still isn’t doing what I want… and I don’t really know how to use it.
-Acid Pro 4.0 – I’ve been playing with this and love the simplicity and the look. I love how easily I can stretch the track and get in there, splice and dice and move and reconnect. I just can’t figure out how to get my keyboard to work with it… I also haven’t tried very hard. I have been using it with loops and beats that I’ve found around the web, CD’s and CD Rom’s. Everyone I know swears cakewalk is better than this… All I know, is that I haven’t had to pick up a manual or use the help until this! (I’ve never used nor even seen ProTools before, but from what I see on this site, a lot of people are gonna laugh at either of these programs.)
-Aureal Vortex 8810 Audio soundcard
-AMD Athlon XP 2200+, 1.80 GHz, 512 MB of Ram Computer with Windows XP Home Edition 2002
-CheapAss (I think that’s the brand name) Karaoke Machine – You may laugh but just wait… it gets better.

So, the only way I have been able to get anything to work, was to plug the Triton L/Mono Audio Output into the Karaoke Machine’s Mic Input. (Hey I can hear, and it actually sounds better than the speakers hooked up to my PC. Then I have the MidiSport connecting the PC and Triton.
At first, I was unable to get any sound from the Triton while in the studio programs. Now, I can at least hear the keyboard and record what I’m doing… but it’s just not working right. I realize that I can do it all right on the keyboard but I don’t have the “sold separately” EXB-SMPL option installed on it. Besides, that is what the Home Studio is supposed to be for.

So, upgrading to monitor speakers and a mixer and several of the other things I don’t know what to get or use yet, is not an affordable option… yet! (Please throw in ideas about what order and what mid-range items to get… I will be able to spend about $500-$1000 every month. Our goal is to eventually, (next year or two), get a studio space to put our equipment in or at least be able to do everything at home, professional quality, and only use studio’s to record live instruments and lay down permanent vocals. (We don’t yet own our home, so it’s not worth the money soundproofing and building in everything. Especially a sound booth.) We are very good at coming up with the tracks and lyrics…we just need to learn the equipment.

How do I get what I have to work… it I have to get something else or it won’t work at all… I guess that’ll be next. I just want to be able to start getting all of these beats out of my head and hear them play!!! Ahhh!

Oh yeah, Where the heck is a good source to define all of the lingo? If I have to read one more manual that thinks I'm buying this "beginner" product because I am totally pro, I'm gonna feed it to my dog! Maybe, I can not figure any of this out because it tells me to echo this to and from this to that machine and turn of some initialed dial that is so far deep in an electronic option that it can keep you up until 4AM just looking for it and now that it thinks I have found my ... Hmm, step away from the keyboard go to bed!

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Instead of spending the money now you should maybe SAVE that money and spend the next year or two in total research--read and find out about new and USED/OLDER equipment, read up on recording/soundproofing/etc, try to pick a few local AE's brains about gear, watch some recording sessions, make mock setups and find the pros/cons of doing it that way and so on.

After that year you will have about 10k saved and THEN buy your gear. I guarantee if you just go out and buy stuff with your current knowledge you will waste THOUSANDS of dollars in stuff you don't need, doesn't do what you need it to do, etc...

Honestly, if you have to ask ANYONE if you need a piece of gear you don't know enough about it to make that decision.

Just adopt the above guide as a rule and you will end up with a cost effective powerful studio, instead of a 10,000 dollar pile of cheap junk you don't need.

Just my advice. Take as you will.

 

[heroics321]

Instead of spending the money now you should maybe SAVE that money and spend the next year or two in total research--read and find out about new and USED/OLDER equipment, read up on recording/soundproofing/etc, try to pick a few local AE's brains about gear, watch some recording sessions, make mock setups and find the pros/cons of doing it that way and so on.

completely right... i used what i had (20 year old sharp tape recorder with built in mic) for about 5 months while researching. i didn't even buy one cable until i knew which would be a good buy. take cloneboy's advice, it is the only way to get a 98% guarentee that you won't say to yourself "man, i really should have bought some decent monitors instead of dropping $400 on this software that i don't need".

if you're in a hurry for lord knows what reason (recording is meant to test the limits of human patience, especially when on a budget) heed the following: i think you have the wrong idea about what midi is. it is simply a means for electronic devices to communicate. with the triton plugged into the midi-sport, it is just functioning as an expensive midi controler, no actual audio is transmitted. plug the triton into the line input on the vortex card and record it from there.

 

[tedluk]

Where to begin?...

First off, Cloneboy and heroics give you good advice, but I don't think it's realistic to wait a year before you buy anything. C'mon guys!

Definitely DO your research before making purchases and definitely DON'T rely on music store employees to give you good advice! Even if they're honest, most of them simply don't know much about the gear.

Whenever you are considering new gear, start with analyzing what it is that you're trying to accomplish. It sounds obvious, but too often we get sidetracked by all the advertising and hype and forget to look at whether something is actually going to enhance our productivity. Honestly try to evaluate whether a particular item is going to allow you to make more or better music. Also, look at what people whose music you like are using. That should give you a good starting point.

As for your current setup... Well, hmmmm, there are a lot of things wrong and a few right. The Triton wasn't a bad choice. It has a lot of sounds and is somewhat of a standard. Korg makes solid boards and you got a good price on it.

I think you're confusing the sampling board (EXB-SMPL) for the sequencer. Out of the box, the Triton has a 200,000 event, 16 track sequencer for you to record into. The EXB-SMPL allows you to sample into the Triton, a completely different proposition.

The weakest links in your current arrangement are the Karaoke machine and the soundcard in your computer. To actually attempt to make recordings you will need a better audio interface (soundcard) and some kind of monitoring system (powered monitors or an amplifier/passive speaker combo). If all you're doing is working with the keyboard right now, you can forgo a mixer for the time being.

Lastly, just saying things aren't working the way you want isn't going to illicit much in the way of assistance. If your intent was to get some help in configuring things correctly, then you need to be as specific as possible in explaining how things are connected, what's not working and what you've attempted to correct the problem.

Good luck!

Ted

 

[heroics321]

Where to begin?...
First off, Cloneboy and heroics give you good advice, but I don't think it's realistic to wait a year before you buy anything. C'mon guys!

haha, 1-2 years is deffinately a long time, especially with trying to research computer technology. thats why i added that i spent 5 months doing mine. mostly because i was broke, and also i needed at least an 8 track setup. i started on the fender forum (i'm a guitarist), getting refered to this site and working the hell out of the search function, and then i went from there.

i started out wanting a fostex 8 track reel to reel and alesis mixer combo that would have ran me $400... i ended up with a new 2.2 ghz athlon xp system with an adat interface. i found in researching products, there is almost equal support and hatred for almost everything out there in the home/project studio range (certainly there are well known exceptions). its too easy to get excited about the gear that is being put out by companies, and if you don't take your time to let it all sink in so you can judge everything fairly... you can get burned really bad, especially by commission whores.

 

[tedluk]

Don't get me wrong, I totally believe in doing lots of research. But if you wait for years, all the technology will have changed and you'll be right back where you started. At some point, you've got to just decide and live with it.

I buy a lot of used gear, especially if I'm not entirely sure it's what I want. Most of the time, I've been able to get things for a price that I could resell them for. Some things you're not going to be able to do that on, but when you factor in the time and use you get out of them I suppose I still have gotten good deals on most of my gear.

Ted

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

This is what I did:

I started recording as a hobbyist in 1988 using a crap 4 track cassette analog, a Sony tapedeck for mixdown and a crappy Yamaha 4 channel mixer. I kept this setup until 1995. For a few years I didn't record, but in 1998 I wanted to get into recording again but I wanted to wait a bit until the price went down on digital gear.

So I spent about 2 years just increasing my knowledge, sitting in on pro sessions at local studios, and so forth. Then in 2000 I started buying stuff up again.

Granted I changed my setup since then (had a G3 400/2408 MK II setup) and got annoyed with computer interfaces... ended up with an HD24XR and A&H 24 channel 8 buss.

At least... take six months to figure out all the devices in a studio. Talk to some people that own studios, see how their set up is. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of dollars of 'accessories' that you probably need but don't know it yet--like line balancers, direct boxes, audio cables and so on.