Okay, lets cut the BS and get to the chase

Waoh Newest User

Im a seasoned Guitarist with 15 years of recording and 5 albums to my credit, did alot of touring, im not talking about "creating music" im talking about recording, big difference, thats the first thing you should try and understand...

Writing great music is not necessarily a "quaranteed" thing, you can be a great guitarist with years of practice, and trust me, ive seen great guitarist play awesome covers but really suck a-ss at writing originals, its a born talent, dont ever let someone tell you otherwise.

YOU CANNOT TEACH WRITING.. print that out and post it to your fridge.

Sure you can learn piano and become a fantastic player, playing Bach and wooing the audience, but writing your own material is another thing.

You need not preach to me about writing..

My whole thread was rather basic, like for example..

You decide to put your own computer together, okay, you got the parts, where do they go? So you learn that.. its standard, the ram cant go anywhere other than the slots intended,

next step, partition the hard drive and format.. now your ready to load windows.. dig now?
 
Your analogies are good, and your credentials are impressive, so I'm sure your learning curve would be a lot shorter than it is for a lot of others out there.

The fact that you're an accomplished guitar player means that you probably already understand how much work and practice is involved when it comes to honing your craft.

Recording isn't much different. I've been playing bass now for 15 years, and I though I knew it all. Recording I have found to be equally as challenging as learning to play the bass. Actually, it may even require more practice and learning. The bass kind of came natural to me after a while, and I figured things out for myself.

You can't teach someone to write, that's for sure. Just like you can't teach pitch to someone who's tone-deaf. Luckily, recording is a skill that you can learn. If you've got a good natural ear and feel for music, that will work to your advantage. But beyond that, it really is a skill that can be honed . . . unlike "learning" to write, or "learning" pitch . . . two skills that you either have or you don't, moreless.
 
how much work and practice is involved when it comes to honing your craft.
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Thats true, but you can understand the proper way to hold a golf club, and you may decent, but that doesnt quaantee you success, Tiger Woods is awesome because he has a "born talent"

But to be honest, the best songs ive ever written was driving down the road and humming a riff, one thing with my ears, i pretty much know what notes they are before i ever get home and temp record it.. true, i can listen to a song and hear a "G" or A etc and know that, I never knew really knew too much about the recording part.. we'd record, go in and give inputs on levels etc, and let those cats take care of the rest

You cant do that with writing..

Talking to a guy in his 30's that fairly new to the whole DAW stuff, yeah its difficult to take, midi's etc, all i was looking for was someone to tell me, hey dude, first thing you need to do record at this level. dont add effects till after recording,.. sh*t like that

hell, it took me 6 months to learn Cubase..

Telling someone to wing it is lame.. It's easy for guys to say that and not give much input.. but remember.. some of you were there at 1 time.. give a little advice.. It"ll come back to ya..

But dont expect everybody to understand this and for some on here to slam others for simple advice is lame, and say "Go read a manual" is weak

To guys that say the basics of recording is an "Art" is an embarrassment to the musicians out there...
 
Well, you're definitely getting it.

Arguably, recording is something you could probably do in a step-by-step fashion, and have it sound somewhat acceptable. As long as you're not expecting it to sound earth-shatteringly good. But definitely good enough for a rough demo to share amongst yourself, friends or with bandmates for song ideas. Even then, it will take a little longer to explain in one post, so you'd be better off reading an owner's manual or a beginner's guide or something like that.

The reason it can't be done in a quick one-page manual is because there are a lot of things involved. Levels, mics, compression, eq, mixing, mastering, etc. Each separate entity would involve a whole section of it's own. And there are so many ways to go about it. There is no: "Hey dude, this is the one right way."

It's like asking "How can I be a great lover?" in 2 pages or less. I suppose you could get a quick rundown of the basic process/mechanics involved out of the "human reproduction" section of any good Biology/Human Anatomy text book. And you can always do it the old fashion way by fumbling around with trial and error.

But to become a real stud, you kind of have to put some more thorough research in to it. And each step could have it's own book written about it . . . from dating, to setting the mood, to foreplay. Not to mention all of the different techniques and positions there are. And of course, each woman is going to be different, so what works brilliantly for one might go over like a lead balloon on another.

You said yourself it took you 6 months to learn Cubase. Well, it took me about a year to thoroughly understand compression . . . what it REALLY was, how to REALLY use it, what's too much? And I'm still learning how to use "pumping" as an effect (no pun intended there, guy).

Getting back to the sex analogy, I could tell you some pointers on what my girl likes, but it's going to be difficult to describe without the aid of visual diagrams. :) And it won't do you much good, because you ain't going to try it out on my girl either! Well, maybe if the price is right in a Robert Redford / Demi Moore / Indecent Proposal sort of way if you catch my drift. :) :)
 
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" Recording I have found to be equally as challenging as learning to play the bass. "

Chess, bowling is more challenging then bass ;)
 
Does this guy STILL want to learn everything about recording in ONE PAGE. Geeeeeeze. Why don't you go and ask the guy who recorded your 5 albums for the page.


OK I'm actually going to attempt it. Now we know you've played guitar for 15 years so tune your guitar up get an amp sound that your happy with and back off the distortion just a bit. By the end of the mix it'll sound a disorted (or balsy) as it was before. Remember that. I have a very hard time explaining that to guitarists when recording them. Exspecially ones that have been playing for years. Ok so get someone else to play it for you or feed the input of the amp with a direct recorded clean guitar piece thats looping. Now that you have a similar kind of sound coming of the cardboard cones in you cabinet that your going to record go and get your sure57 mic. Plug it into your mic pre. I could write a few pages about mic pre's but we'll save that for another day. Have the amp at the volume you plan to record at. If there is any compression or eq on your mic pre, leave it of for now. What we are trying to do here is get a good guitar sound in the headphones. Totally different to the guitar sound that you hear when playing guitar sitting in front of the amp. Totally.
Now if you record your amp as loud as I do you will need to use a good set of muffed hearphones. Remember we want to hear it through the headphones, since thats whats going to tape. Muffed headphones will block out more of the outside world af the loud guitar cabinet. Get a bath towel and fold it londways a few times and wrap it around your head and the headphones and cover this with a nitted beenie. I sometimes have to do this to be able to hear the music im recording to. Now start moving the mic across the front cloth of your amp pointing it at the speaker and you'll notice it sounds thin and digi when its pointing right in the centre of the speaker. Still keeping it perpondicular to the speaker, start to move the mic towards the outer diameter of the speaker. You'll notice the sound gets very bassy towards the outside. Now that doesn't mean that you put the mic here when recording bass either. The same applies. I have most success with the mic about 1 1/2 inches accross from the centre, right on the cloth or closer even. And experiment around a bit with the angle of the mic. That can make a big difference too.

Ah damn, The page is up. And I havn't even talked about signal chain, room mics, eq, compression, recording level, room accoustics, coffee, reverb, mixing, String guages, picks, effects, etc. And we havn't even recorded anything yet. And this is just one instrument. And the guitar is the easyest. Micing a voice and a drum kit is way more complexed. Now I could abreviate this page and say "point mic at amp - hit record - play guitar". Because what I said above is about 3% of the proccess. And to keep it to a page I would have to abreviate it to a few words. Which would tell you fuckall. And there are so many different ways to do the above. And don't think that micing a cabinet isn't an art. It fuck'n is. An artist picks up a particular size paint brush and applies a stroke. A recording engineer chooses a particular mic and CREATIVELY finds a nice sweetspot.
You've been using cubase for 6 months now. Surely you can see that recording is a dificult thing to master. I mean why else would you come here and ask us. Could you teach my sister how to play guitar in one page. Try it.
 
Ouch. Tex, dude - that was just uncalled for.

And Scott - I've been trying to get it to him for a few days now, but your post was quite well done. Maybe that'll help. He's a bit non-receptive to the "recording as artform" concept.

Ken Rutkowski
Outer Limit Recording Studio
 
recording then mixing properly is harder then learning just about any instrument. Its damn hard but thats the fun of it. Learning!
 
"To guys that say the basics of recording is an "Art" is an embarrassment to the musicians out there..."


God damn dude...do you realize how many people THAT is an insult to?

I gave you some pretty straightforward advice that you didn't acknowledge - record as loud as you need to...

but, thats just another chip on my shoulder ;)

Anyways, that comment is so ridiculous. That is an insult to people like Harvey Gerst on this board for example...

It's an insult to people like George Martin he *created* the Beatles sound.

Chess has it right - you can make a recording in a "by the book manner"....and, it will sound ok, and...doesn't need to be considered art.

Just like anyone here can cook up some salmon using a generic recipe. But what about those first class chefs who have mastered their own ideas about how salmon should be cooked...

Do you think that's not an art to them?

You decide what is art for you and do it....that is fine - but DON'T tell people what isn't art for them. Thats bullshit man.

The first class engineers of the world absolutely look back on some of their great accomplishments like they were there own children - it's an art. Maybe not for everyone....but, for those who are truely great.

If you don't want to be great...fine, it's not an art for you and music is. Half science, half art, half voodoo...seriously.

As far as songwriters go....while I totally believe that song writing is a gift (even more so lyric writing, I think) - people do get much better over time. Case in point, the Bealtes, or Elton...or hell U2.

Bono and Edge didn't start off as songwriters...their first stuff sucked. But they got better over time...and are now well respected and have written some amazing stuff in my book.

Good songwriting is a gift...but, you can work on it.

Good engineering is a gift too....some people start out at a much higher level than others...doesnt mean you can't get good...

And I say that to say - that not just anyone can be the best engineer in the world. There is a lot of "born talent" with stuff like mixing in my opinion.

Anyways, its all an art.
 
Re: Waoh Newest User

Freak-a-zoid said:


next step, partition the hard drive and format.. now your ready to load windows.. dig now?
Click to expand...

i couldn't pass this up...

or be smarter and load Linux :D
 
TexRoadkill said:
Chess, bowling is more challenging then bass ;)
Click to expand...

Whoo! Ouch! Actually, bowling WELL is pretty tough. Otherwise, everyone would be bowling 300 + every game. Anything is tough to do well, but I yea I get your joke. :) ha ha.

But that's really the point. Rolling the ball down the lain isn't tough. Knocking down every pin, every time, is. Plucking strings on a bass isn't tough either . . . but sounding like Flea when you do it is very challenging. Hitting the record button is something a monkey could do . . . but I guess I'm rambling now, so I'll shut my trap.
 
Gee, c'mon guys...quit holding out and spew the secret of recording. Its SO simple! Just get a mic, point it at the sound source and push the red button.*


*If that doesn't work, then check the following:

mic placement
mic type
mic settings (pad on/off? low cut engaged?)
pop filter used?
room ambience
instrument tuning
instrument settings
instrument amplifier and settings
direct box employed?
preamp
preamp input setting
preamp output setting
preamp lo cut setting
meters on recording device
settings on signal chain gear (comps, limiters, EQs, exciters, expanders, de-essers)
tweak above components until correct for given instrument
monitors (are they accurate?)
power amp
cabling
power to studio--is voltage correct?
mixing board settings all correct (no overloading, excess EQ, etc)
ears fresh?
room tuned (no standing waves, excess ambience, etc)

The last step is really simple. If your results don't equate to pro standards with step one, simply go through the items in step 2 and make the correct settings to everything. When all is adjusted correctly, you should start to see some improvement. Since this will vary from song to song, it could take a few extra seconds to dial in the perfect sound.

Of course, an inspired performance on the front end doesn't hurt anything.

OK. I'm done being a smart-ass. Point is, there is no easy way that works all the time.

"life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" :D
 
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