Okay, lets cut the BS and get to the chase

F

Freak-a-zoid

New member
Ive read the articles, bought the books but it's all PHD material..

Why cant someone just come out with a simple "recordrng for dummies?"

Cant someone just say

1) record drums at a certain db (Eq to your liking)
2)next record bass at a cerain db
3) the guitars, or whatever

you get my drift..

EQ as you see fit etc during recording..

next step is to compress the drums or bass at a certain setting then guitars and whamo! there ya go!

Mastering.. well, f*ck it it thats the hard part , were on our own..

i understand the importance of mastering, but i gotta believe the jist of the recording itself has to be frekin pretty elementry and standard across the board..

why write a 500 page book on recording when it could be explained in 1 page?
 
It can't be explained on one page because there is no formula like you suggest exists. Sorry.

Ripping your ideas to shreds in public one at a time:

>1) record drums at a certain db (Eq to your liking)

NO!!!

Record ANY tracks at as high a level as you can without clipping.
Add EQ only as needed.

>2)next record bass at a cerain db

Same as before. Record, or "track" them at as close to 0 dB as you can safely get.

>3) the guitars, or whatever

Right. :rolleyes:

>next step is to compress the drums or bass at a certain setting then guitars and whamo! there ya go

You ought to investigate some compression after the fact for each track that has some wild peaks.

>Mastering.. well, f*ck it it thats the hard part , were on our own

Apparently :eek:

>i understand the importance of mastering, but i gotta believe the jist of the recording itself has to be frekin pretty elementry

THis is where we agree. You've gotta get some good tracking before anything else is worthwhile applying.
 
If the jist of recording is so easy, how come so many of us struggle with it? If it's something you could explain in one page, wouldn't we have it all figured out by now?
 
Well now..

I hardly believe you play your guitar harder than i do, using a Zoom drum machine i hardly believe your gonna get much of a different sound than i would. i doubt you playing the bass would be louder than I, or vice versa..

What im saying is, its irrelevant at what loudness you play your instrument at, its the recording level. if i record at volume 2 and you record at volume 9, its irrelevant at what we record at if our setings of input are the same..

im talking pure pc recording here with a drum amchine and a Pro line 6 and pod products and Cubase and software..

im not referring to live drumming in anyway..

but since the input level is the same there has to be a way to make it all work in a easy way, sure your guitar amp may be different sounding, your drums may be Jazz style with a crisp snare or a heavier metal sound..
but the overall input level and next step of compression has to be the same..

example,

if Zepplin went into studio A and recorded Houses.

its a sure thing studio B would have used the same approach, resulting in the same sound.. dig?


So give me the scoop
 
There's an old saying that recording is half art, half science, and half voodoo. You can learn the science (but it's not for dummies), you can acquire the art through experience (if you're wired that way), but the voodoo - either you get it, or you don't. If you've got the voodoo, the art & science may come quicker and easier - but you still gotta pay your dues until the 3 come together. Sorry there's no "quick fix". The more time you spend looking for the easy way (which doesn't exisit) the more time you've lost which could be spent acquiring recording skills. Read and learn how the tools work, use all the tools you can get your hands on as often as you can, and pray for voodoo!
:D
Scott
 
Another reason an across the board approach can't be used is acoustics. Not everyone is recording in the same exact space with the same exact dimensions. No one has their amps set the exact same way. Add the difference in monitors, and you've just compounded the equation to a limitless series of if/then statements.

Also not taken into consideration is the production requirements that will be different for every song within every genre.

It's almost the same argument as "there are only twelve notes, so everything has been done before", because there are far more variables involved than just a series of notes within a defined limit.

Cy
 
Play it like you really mean it, get your best live sound,...

and try to get the recorded tape track to sound as live as possible, with mic placement, EQ, and other creative use of multiple inputs, perhaps with the sparing use of effects processors.

Record the track with a good, strong signal. EQ a little, first for best live sound, and then a little extra high end boost, to compensate for a little tape roloff effect that will occur. After getting your best live room sound mix, and your recording feed mixed for best live sound, play it like you really mean it, and get the best, most live, full and optimum sound printed to tape.

The better sound you get on the input side, and printed to tape, the easier it will be to mixdown, and it will require less fiddling and less EQ at mixdown time.

That's my 2c

/DA;)
 
Where all born with ears and hands. Using your hands it takes many years of PRACTISE to master the instrument of a guitar or drums. Using your ears it takes many years of PRACTISE to learn the ropes of creating a good final mixdown. Listen to my mixes two years ago and then now. Big difference. Listen to others on this bbs a year ago and then now. Big difference. A year from now and 20songs later and your mixes will be better too.
This is the page of information your after. Since no single page exists and never will.

I hope i'm not being too sarcastic to your response because its a valid question. I too thought it would be easier when I first started. The more I learn the more I realise what I didn't know before. Give it time and do the hard yards and you will be rewarded bigtime.

Scott Tansley.
 
I think your point about Led Zeppelin recording "House's..." in studio A and getting the same results in studio B brings home the point that you need to do a 180% turn in your thinking. Just the opposite is true.

Recording, like music, is an art...........
 
Scott Tansley said:
Where all born with ears and hands. Using your hands it takes many years of PRACTISE to master the instrument of a guitar or drums. Using your ears it takes many years of PRACTISE to learn the ropes of creating a good final mixdown. Listen to my mixes two years ago and then now. Big difference. Listen to others on this bbs a year ago and then now. Big difference. A year from now and 20songs later and your mixes will be better too.
This is the page of information your after. Since no single page exists and never will.

I hope i'm not being too sarcastic to your response because its a valid question. I too thought it would be easier when I first started. The more I learn the more I realise what I didn't know before. Give it time and do the hard yards and you will be rewarded bigtime.

Scott Tansley.
Click to expand...
This is VERY, VERY true.
 
Re: Well now..

Freak-a-zoid said:
I hardly believe you play your guitar harder than i do, using a Zoom drum machine i hardly believe your gonna get much of a different sound than i would. i doubt you playing the bass would be louder than I, or vice versa.
Click to expand...
Completely wrong... playing style DOES affect everything. Some players are more dynamic, other are more even-handed. Tone and timbre change from person to person given the same instrument/setup.


What im saying is, its irrelevant at what loudness you play your instrument at, its the recording level. if i record at volume 2 and you record at volume 9, its irrelevant at what we record at if our setings of input are the same...
Click to expand...
See above.....


im talking pure pc recording here with a drum amchine and a Pro line 6 and pod products and Cubase and software..

im not referring to live drumming in anyway..
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter... the concept is the same - you are greatly oversimplfying the process...


but since the input level is the same there has to be a way to make it all work in a easy way, sure your guitar amp may be different sounding, your drums may be Jazz style with a crisp snare or a heavier metal sound..
but the overall input level and next step of compression has to be the same..
Click to expand...
Nope..... doesn't work that way.........


example,

if Zepplin went into studio A and recorded Houses.

its a sure thing studio B would have used the same approach, resulting in the same sound.. dig?
Click to expand...
They might have a SIMILAR sound - but only because the same people are playing the instruments --- you leave the setup the same way and record your band with Zep's instruments doing the same song and it WILL sound completely different -- and all the outboard will be equally different...........


So give me the scoop
Click to expand...
The scoop is... you're a rookie, and if you keep at it, you will learn.... the recording process is not as simple as you want to beleive it is.... period.

You either have to commit to learning the real story - which involves a significant learning curve before you start "sounding good"... or concentrate on being a musician and let the pros take care of the recording!

Good luck.....


Bruce
 
No worries mate !!

I garrantee you that you'll know a shitload more in a years time.
Possibly, potentially or probably more than we know. Be sure to share it with us.
 
I'd just like to add that recording everything as loud as you can without clipping isn't necessarily good advice..

esp when working with a cheap digital setup...but, I dont think its great advice in any case.

Makes for a lot of volume adjustments and mixing stuff, either analog or DSP..whichever.

I say record things so that your dry track sounds about like you want it to level wise. By the time you do some initial eq, pan some things out....you are getting wicked close to a wicked mix.

Big volume adjustments hurt your sound..especially on cheap DSP. If you want a nice quiet acoustic backtrack....don't gut that thing and record it at -1db...let it breathe baby.
 
there cant be a fail safe recipe for succesful recording becuase ther are unlimited variables. for instance take the drum kit for example. I can think a several examples :


Drums are never tuned the same
drums sound different based on their make
heads sound different
drummers ability varies
the space I use between mikes and heads will vary
my recording room sounds different then yours
my preamps and mikes may be better then yours
grind blast beats and relaxed jazz drumming would be recorded
differently

most importantly

what I think sounds good can sound like crap to you.
 
Having been on both sides of the glass in a few studios, I can tell you that the recording part of the process, as opposed to the mixing or mastering part, is just as mysterious and complicated. I've found that most engineers excel at one or the other, but not both. It's hard, as a client, to watch so much time go by with nothing even getting recorded yet, and engineers need to be sensitive to this also, but in the end the best recordings are the ones that invested the time into putting up several mics, moving them around, trying a different pre, moving baffles, etc, until everything is just right. Steely Dan is a great example. Those guys spent sooooo much money making those records, but the recordings are stellar. They frowned on having to eq anything, let alone running it through the processors that are used without a thought today.
Ask yourself this.......if you we're making fine wood cabinets, would you want to spend you're time doing beautiful dovetail joints, or filling gaps with putty and painting over the whole mess to cover up your shoddy workmanship. It's the same with recording. Give the recording process the attention and time it deserves, and your mixing will be about bringing out the beauty, not covering up the mistakes.
Regards, RD
 
Freak-a-zoid said:
Ive read the articles, bought the books but it's all PHD material..

Why cant someone just come out with a simple "recordrng for dummies?"
Click to expand...

I think the book he was looking for was next to it at Barnes and Noble. Brain Surgery for Dummies. It has nice outlines and pictures to help you labotomize family members, friends and neighbors. Is it me..or is there alot of hurry upinhereisms.

I don't wanna learn how to be a musician...I just wanna make millions as a rock star! I don't wanna learn how to do it myself. I don't wanna know anything about engineering, I just wanna make hit records!

My advice, get off your idea that making great music is like ready mix brownies and take the time to learn something.

I know I might be a little harsh, but if you don't have the longsuffering to read a book and experiment some before having kinda freakaziodian hissy fit containing 4 letter expleitives, well maybe you choose something else to do.

And besides..there is a book for dummies called Recording for Dummies. Go get it!

If I had a sense of humor, this might have been funny.

TTFN
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top