Ok here's the dealie-o

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrWho
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MrWho

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Ive been lurking this board for quite sometime now and I finally decided to register...why you ask? Well Im really gonna start working seriously on building a professional home studio. I am a rap artist who has been offered a few deals but I never followed through because I have always had a vision of building my own from the ground up. Well now my vision is finally becoming a reality. I just bought my first house and I'm going to convert a room to a studio.

Money is really no object but I dont wanna spend huge amounts of money on things I dont really dont need. I have people who are going to produce beats for me and all I am interested in doing at this point is to be able to record my vocals and mix them in with beats. As time goes by and my knowledge expands I will upgrade as needed so I can make my own beats but for now I dont want to waste time learning that to, I just wanna begin recording.

I want to purchase the top of the line stuff right off the bat vs. buying crap, buying crap then finally buying the good stuff.

Im having problems deciding what equipment I really need at this point for exactly what it is I want to do. So far I have been considering the RODE NTK for a mic. From what I have read they have a real good reputation for making quality mics and I have read some good reviews about it...any opinions out there about the NTK?

Im also in the process of building a 2.4 ghz pentium 3 with 2 hard drives, over 512 mb of ram etc.....Now for my situation what other equipment would you recommend and what do you think I'll need? Do I need a mixer? Or can I accomplish what I plan to do with only the following equipment - a mic, pre-amp and sound card?

Please help me spend my hardly earned money wisely...and recommend what I need and what brands and models I should research further and consider buying.


Thanks to anyone who takes the time to offer their suggestions...

P.S. -Oh yea anyone happen to know of a good book or website to research on startng your own record label, distribution companies etc...?
 
As far as your computer goes, yeah you can just use standalone preamps instead of a mixer.

Slackmaster 2000
 
So the bare essentials for my situation are...

Pre-amp, a condenser mic and a sound card? Someone please help with recomending top of the line products...

Thanks Slackmaster2K, but feel free to help me out with the other half of my questions - Thanks in advance to anyone else who replies..your assistance and knowledge is greatly admired and appreciated.
 
Top of the line? Man, then you're going to spend $5000+ on the mic, $5000 on the preamp, $1000 on a great digital soundcard, $5000 on a killer outboard A/D D/A converters, $1000 in cables, $10,000 on a monitoring rig...etc etc.

We need to know what kind of goals you have...what you need and what you can afford. Can't just pick products out of the blue because there is too much to choose from.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slackmaster2K 00

I did search for $5000 mics I couldn't find any, lol..and if i did I honestly wouldnt know what to look for...if it were computer parts It would be a different story but Im still in that newbie stage where all the terminologies are confusing still and I need a some help explorin' these new grounds.

Let's put it this way Im lookin' for the lexus's of luxury cars. Quality products (higher-end) priced to match their quality. I will be distributing the end product nationwide, so I want it to sound as close as commercial cd's out there as far as quality is concerned. Hope that clarifies things up.....
 
Anyone else out there willing to len a helping hand...?

I guess everyone must be busy or sleeping...
 
dude... it's late... don't expect a flurry of responses. Just be patient.


Here's my recommendations:

For the mic, get a Neumann U87. Great for vocals. Neumanns have been around forever (75 years), and the models like the U87 are proven, industry standards. (Try to see if you can snag an older model, though. Most think that they're a little better than the newer versions.) These go for aboat $2500.

For the Mic Pre, get an Avalon Tube Pre. (Something like the VT-737SP) It's a compressor/pre. They have great warmth and they are also common in "pro" sutdios. These go for aboot $2000.

For the soundcard,... well... there's a hell of a lot to choose from. And you're gonna need software too (to mix your beats with your vox). You may want to consider an integrated solution. Since you seem to want to get "pro" quality stuff, you'll prolly want to look into Pro Tools. Check out their website and look at all the different solutions. They are also a proven, industry standard, and a lot of major studios use their stuff. Basically, they provide integrated software/audio interface products (so that you don't have to buy the software and sound card and converters and control surface separately). They start anywhere from $500 (for the entry-level stuff), all the way up to astronomical, oh-my-god-I-can't-believe-it-costs-that-much prices for the super "high-end" stuff. You can most likely find a solution that suits your needs.


Something you'll need to keep in mind. Even though someone is gonna give you the beats and you "just" need to mix in vocals... you will still need to learn a crap-load of stuff. Compression, mixing, EQ'ing, effective mic positioning and room treatment (try not to record your vocals in the bathroom. :p), etc. etc. etc. If you wanna get "pro" results, you'll need a lot more than just "pro" equipment.


WATYF
 
You could talk to Fletcher. I'm not necessarily trying to send him business, but he does sell a lot of high end preamps and mics for competitive prices, and he is a wealth of knowledge, and he has a reputatioin of really knowing his shit. He may have some very good advice regarding matching cetain mics and preamps for Rap vocals.

Warning, you may want to wear a bib when visiting the site below. It has been known to cause adult men to drool uncontrollably.

http://www.mercenary.com/
 
Don't forget a proper acoustic space, both for tracking and mixing. If your room sounds like a*s, your U87->Avalon (or whatever) chain will do a great job of recording that a*s :)

Trust me - I know from experience (a Soundelux into a Great River!)

Good luck though! It's alot of fun!
 
I don't know why but my "Troll-O-Meter" is hitting the medium high level, but if your for real:

If you have been offered deals AND this is going to be distributed nationwide AND you want it to sound like the real deal AND all you have to do is lay vox over already done beats and treats....Your money is much better spent working with the tracks beforehand and figuring out exactly what your going to do (rehearsing) and then go into a local studio with a good rep and doing it there.

You could probably record vox for 10 albums for the cost it would take you to get the same results in your home, and you would save time and aggravation in the process. After your album sells a million you can do whatever you want then...
 
good point....

If you want pro results... why not just hire a pro.


The cost of the gear alone is gonna be more than a very decent amount of studio time. Especially if all you have to do is record some vocal tracks and lay them over a beat.

WATYF
 
WATYF said:
dude... it's late... don't expect a flurry of responses. Just be patient.


Here's my recommendations:

For the mic, get a Neumann U87. Great for vocals. Neumanns have been around forever (75 years), and the models like the U87 are proven, industry standards. (Try to see if you can snag an older model, though. Most think that they're a little better than the newer versions.) These go for aboat $2500.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, I will research it further. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and pointing me in the right direction..

Once second though - Have you heard anything about the RODE NTK mics? I heard they are reall good compared to other higher end mics. Do you think there will be a noticable difference between the U87 and the RODE NTK?


For the Mic Pre, get an Avalon Tube Pre. (Something like the VT-737SP) It's a compressor/pre. They have great warmth and they are also common in "pro" sutdios. These go for aboot $2000.
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Thats sounds good, I will read up on that too. Quick question regarding pre-amps though - I have been looking at pre-amps and I see some that say "tube" and some don't can you explain what tube mans and what it does. Thanks in advance...



For the soundcard,... well... there's a hell of a lot to choose from. And you're gonna need software too (to mix your beats with your vox). You may want to consider an integrated solution. Since you seem to want to get "pro" quality stuff, you'll prolly want to look into Pro Tools. Check out their website and look at all the different solutions. They are also a proven, industry standard, and a lot of major studios use their stuff. Basically, they provide integrated software/audio interface products (so that you don't have to buy the software and sound card and converters and control surface separately). They start anywhere from $500 (for the entry-level stuff), all the way up to astronomical, oh-my-god-I-can't-believe-it-costs-that-much prices for the super "high-end" stuff. You can most likely find a solution that suits your needs.
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Click to expand...



If you hade a mid sized budget which model of the digidesign soundcards would you choose? That will help me know where to start.


Something you'll need to keep in mind. Even though someone is gonna give you the beats and you "just" need to mix in vocals... you will still need to learn a crap-load of stuff. Compression, mixing, EQ'ing, effective mic positioning and room treatment (try not to record your vocals in the bathroom. :p), etc. etc. etc. If you wanna get "pro" results, you'll need a lot more than just "pro" equipment.
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Thanks for the heads up on that. Is it that diffucult to do that though? I was think that all I had to do is select the section of vocals I already had saved and simply use a copy and paste type function to lay the vocals over the beats..Is it more complicated then that and if so do u care to explain in more detail...?

I have no idea about compression, mixing and EQ'ing.....Why and how would I need to do all that to vocals that are just going over beats?

Thanks alot for your time and reply, Im sure it will give me a huge jump start as far as researching what most professionals are using these days. Thanks again...
 
Bass Master "K" said:
I don't know why but my "Troll-O-Meter" is hitting the medium high level, but if your for real:

If you have been offered deals AND this is going to be distributed nationwide AND you want it to sound like the real deal AND all you have to do is lay vox over already done beats and treats....Your money is much better spent working with the tracks beforehand and figuring out exactly what your going to do (rehearsing) and then go into a local studio with a good rep and doing it there.
Click to expand...




Cause Im thinking long-term. I wanna force myself to learn as much as I could possibly learn from experience first and if worse does come to worse I could then actually go & pay for a professional & watch what he does and go home and do it myself. I know sooner or later that Im gonna end up purchasing this stuff anyways. Im thinking more long term since Im pretty confident that I will have a need for my equipment again later on down the line. I'd rather come out with equipment and recording in the end vs. a few recordings and no equipment. Im seeing it more as an investment.

Maybe that means "Troll" to you but I like to do things on my own the right way the first time around. Thats why Ill be releasing it on my own label and thats kinda why I decided to buy a house and dedicate a room to a studio vs. renting an apartment, paying someone for studio time or even paying lease each month for my own studio plus rent.


Thanks for your advice and suggesting Im a "Troll". I appreciate it..
 
I've always wondered why rap "artistes" feel they need top of the line anything.

It's not like your making music. Just yell into an sm-57 with Mackie pres and that's good enough for you.

Christ, I could've made the Eminem Show on my home setup. Nothing but loops and dialog.
 
Um, I dont recall anyone asking your opinion....

This isnt the place for debating what music is and what it's not. This thread is about computer hardware and recording. If you want to bash a certain genre of music then go create your own website about it rather than forcing your opinion on us in a thread that is no where near the subject of debating what real music is.


Quit hi-jacking the thread. Oh and by the by it's spelled "artists" not "artstes"....
 
Actually, Krypto's right about one thing... Rap was not done using top-of-the-line anything.... a boombox and a voice was all the gear that was used.

And if you're thinking long term - then you better be thinking REAL long term... it takes a long time and effort to learn the recording skills it would take to compete with the majors. So much so that if your full-time gig is to develop a music career as well as a label and distribution network, it's very unlikely that you'll have the time necessary to also develop engineering skills to the degree required for you to DIY.

I suggest you rethink some of your priorities because you simply cannot do it all.
 
besides, vocals (along with acoustic guitar) is one of the hardest things to record well. you'll spend a long time getting the sound you want and finding a way to get that sound into the mix without destroying the rest of the song. if you're only doing to vocals i recomend going to a studio. you can drop less that what a decent pre will cost and get all the tracks done in a couple of days.
 
Hmmmmmm, How did you "save" the vocals to begin with? And yes, it is alot more complicated than that. You'll find out when you "copy and paste" the vocals onto the beats (whatever that means) that often times they don't mesh together very well. Why is that? You'll need to read up on gain staging/mic placement/acoustics/eq'ing/compressors
etc...

Think of recording/mixing like any other
musical instrument (do you play any?)
It takes time to learn and you can't just ask -
"I just brought a top of the line Martin
D45, now it can't be too hard to play, I mean I bang on the string and it makes noise, right? So tell me where to put my left-hand fingers so it makes the right note."

Now I don't want to discourage anyone from learning, after all I teach guitar so I can appreciate where a beginner fits in, but I don't want people to expect recording will be as easy as buying "top of the line" equipment and asking "where do I put the knob that says 'ratio' so my sounds come out kicking?"

Good luck!

Thanks for the heads up on that. Is it that diffucult to do that though? I was think that all I had to do is select the section of vocals I already had saved and simply use a copy and paste type function to lay the vocals over the beats..Is it more complicated then that and if so do u care to explain in more detail...?
Click to expand...
 
I think you should ask this question again over on the RAP section of this BBS. To many people still hate rap becuase they feel very, very lame when a trill hiphop cat walks in the room.

Blue Bear is kinda right but do what the hell you wanna do... I think you are on the right track for a cat that wants to spit on his on dime. Don't let these fools change your mind because the fact is it's still better to control your own sound than to go to a dip shit like KRYPAL up there. He will no doubt take your money and then fuck up your project because he doesn't think your style of music type is worth the attention. He thinks he can do a DR. DRE mix with a SM57 and a MACKIE... I quess that's one run to a tape deck to huh?

But check... You should get the equipment but at first allow pros to mix for you and just study over their shoulders and ask lots of questions.

Most of these fools no little to nothing about rap ecept they hate it or tolerate it. Take it to the HIP HOP area and even though most of us are broke you won't have to deal with the hate fueled answers.

U87 , VT-737SP, DIGI002 (desktop or rack), and some advice and knowledge from a experienced person.... Sounds like a setup that will get you dope sound with a little patience and experience.
 
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