Ok Dumb question about SP C4's

K

kats

New member
I'm testing some SD mics against an el cheapo Apex SD to help me decide which way to go on my upgrade.

Using the exact same mic technique on an acoustic (one bridge one neck in stereo about 1 ft away) the c4 came off real dead sounding in comparison. None of that crystal clean high's you get off of an acoustic. Now I think I've screwed up somewhere, because considering the reviews of this mic this should not be the case. (direct into digi002 pre FYI)

So dumb question number one. I assume the cap with the holes around the side is the omni capsule and the other one would be the cardoid. I assumed I was using cardoid when I recorded with the C4.

Dumb question #2 Is it common to have to make drastic mic posistioning changes on mid to high end mics if your used to setting up el cheapos? And is this my problem?
 
I beleive that contrary to what you'd expect, the cap with the holes is cardiod, but I'd check with PMI to be sure.

Is it possible you've got some phase issues going on which is cancelling some frequencies? Have you tried different positions, or one mic at a time, and does that give better frequency response? Have you tried them in an XY, and does that get you closer to what you expect frequency-wise?

Can't answer #2 cause I've never owned higher-end mic's ;-). My experience is each mic needs it's own unique positioning, although within general parameters based upon the instrument and sound you're after.
 
The best placement will depend on the mic. What works well for one pair, may, or may not, work well for another pair. Try the C4s with the capsules with the slits in the side. Those are the cards. The C4s should do well in the mic config you mentioned (12th fret/bridge, 12" out). Maybe try 24" out to allow the guitar output to fully bloom before being recorded.
 
this doesn't shock me, man. the apex's aren't actually any cheaper than the c4's.. maybe in what they cost you, but not in what they actually cost to make in china, which is where they are both made. i have an apex 430 LDC, and for vocals, it beats out my Rode NT2.. (the rode is too bright). trust your ears. and yeah, you got the capsules wrong. the one with the holes will be the cardioid.
 
You used the wrong casule yo, you used omni, which will be more natural sounding, i.e. flatter.

The C4's with card caps on it will most likely be the best souding acoustic guitar mic you have ever used. Natural and nice. Dont mistake sparkly top end for crappy top end. Pay close attention to what it sounds like from 8 feet back when the guy is plkaying it, and then listen to what these mics do. Dead on. I have used a lot of mics on acoustic guitars, including my Soundeluxe U195, AKG c451, etc, etc..... the C4's are great there, better than those mentioned.
The Apex stuff I've had my hands on have sounded like cheap chinese stuff, same as the others.
Lansing- they ARE different, and have been designed by an American by the name of Brent that will probably post here when he sees this thread. The others are mostly standard out-of-the-shop mics, all basically the same. The SP ones are different from that, and the proof is in setting them up and listening.
I have a small clip that used the C4's on acoustic at www.nowhereradio.com/demoking/singles I think both songs might, but the One Fine Line song definately has an acoustic piece in the middle of the song. The setup was less than 1 minute. Set it up, went in there and listened, never moved it again. About a foot away, between the hole and the neck. Worked for us on this song. More time would have possibly produced a better sound, but there is nothing wrong with this sound IMO.
Peace
Paul
 
HEy ez boys I told you it was a stupid question hahahaha!

That's for the help, makes sense to me now.
 
Alright, works great now. How about a review :)

The C4 was warmer and fuller than the apex. I use a Martin D28 which has alot of character, and the C4 brings that character out much greater than the apex. The C4 also seemed much more even across the frequencies.

Having said that and having tested a dozen mics side by side, I'd like to add this:

There's nothing wrong with cheap mics these days. They sound good. However, if you do a side by side test the differences become obvious. I think that you have to look at production as an art in itself. A bad tune is a bad tune and mics won't make a difference, and the opposite holds true except in more extreme examples. I think the drive to improve sound recording should be for the art of recording itself and for the sake of audiophiles at home who listen to music and it's sound. But for the Ipod Mp3 ers, what's the point.
 
It's not my clip so I can't really post it up, but CanopuS sent me an mp3 of some acoustic instrumental track he did with C4s and a DMP3 and it was the first time I really believed that sparklingly good recordings can be made in a home environment.

I get the impression he's a pretty meiticulous bloke though, so who's to say how long it took to get the sound? He gave the impression that as the mics were on short-term loan that he'd just slapped them up to get a feel.
 
i stand corrected. on there being no difference, that is. you should still use your ears and not your gear catalog. like i said, apex 430 over the rode nt2 for vocals, for me. it's darker. i would expect that most people disagree. i'm probably gonna sell the nt2 and get a mxl v69, i hear they're nice and dark.
 
Haha, I always find it funny to hear you still liking that clip Nik! I'm still not sure it gives a great impression of the potential of the mics.... I think I could have got better, but hey it's nice to know you appreciated it!

Anyway, while I tend to be quite detailed in my setup, that occasion was very quickly done... probably took about a minute.... I'm not sure if I actually moved the mics after their initial positioning. I used them as a spaced pair with the usual positioning of one on the 12th fret and one at the body of the guitar, perhaps 10-12" out. Still I think they're nice mics - I enjoy using them.

On a side note - it's the big 1000th post for me! And still I can't record! Oh well.... :)
 
Hey, keep on finding it funny all you like ... I still love that tune. It's on one of my Media Player playlists!!! My 'chill-out' one! You're in esteemed company with Sigur Ros, Lamb etc, the only other 'indie' guy is that Nilse Fix kid who posted some jazz on RP a while back. He's clever too. :)
 
Aye but the thing is.... I never got the time to record the tune! So you're hearing basically the backing track....

Still.... its nice to know you enjoy it. I'm trying to put together new material for a new album.... kind of inspired by the great works of Elliott Smith. It's really weird starting something from scratch. I used all of my songs for a recording with a friend so now we're starting all over again! Anyway, I'm stealing this thread, which is evil and wrong! (Feel free to PM me though Nik)

Back to the topic... glad you got your mics sorted.... the whole cardioid cap thing confused me the first time around so don't worry! ;)
 
Well, back on topic the good news is that I still reckon I'll get a pair of these. Sounds Expo next week and you never know what can happen with a clean credit card at these kinda events!! :)
 
noisedude said:
Well, back on topic the good news is that I still reckon I'll get a pair of these. Sounds Expo next week and you never know what can happen with a clean credit card at these kinda events!! :)
Click to expand...


You wont regret it. OVerheads and acoustic guitars, you'll like em just fine. Just be careful not to engage switches by accident.
 
yeah, the omni/card thing messed me up too. gah, I felt like such a douche when I couldn't figure out why it was sounding different than I thought it should. boo to me though.
 
noisedude said:
Well, back on topic the good news is that I still reckon I'll get a pair of these. Sounds Expo next week and you never know what can happen with a clean credit card at these kinda events!! :)
Click to expand...

Nik, what day are you going? I am there on Thursday.

Tony
 
Ah, Friday sadly. I'm being dragged to a Rufus Wainwright gig on Thursday ... :rolleyes:

Have a good day, shame we couldn't coincide for a pint, but it will eventually happen.

Hey, have you moved? I thought you were in Leicester but now you're in Brum?
 
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