nate_dennis
Well-known member
That's a really good point. I don't know that I would have ever called a ballerina an artist. Though I do consider actors to be artists, so I don't know. DAMN IT!!!! Now I have to reconsider everything I thought that I thought about art.
That's kind of where I stood until KC went and fucked it up for me!!!! LOL
kcearl
I see deaf people
lol..im not really arguing...calling JB an artist is pushing it, but we dont really get to argue the point as performers are/can be artists as well...sometimes the way they execute material is like no other person could...I dont think there is a clear line between the two
acting is a good example
acting is a good example
G
Greg_L
Banned
Art is fake because it can't be defined or measured and no one is an artist. The whole concept is stupid. Greg wins.
nate_dennis
Well-known member
Greg, the grown ups are having a discussion go play.
KC, I didn't think you were trying to argue. I'm just saying your point was valid and is making me rethink my position.
KC, I didn't think you were trying to argue. I'm just saying your point was valid and is making me rethink my position.
kcearl
I see deaf people
ya I know 
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Art as expression, not as market campaigns.......
I do accept that sometimes, 'art' can be an overused word or can be applied rather liberally. But there are 6 or 7 definitions of 'art', one of which is "human creativity" and therefore it is quite a broad term. I'd be surprized if any term existed that cannot be defined. Their very existence militates against non definition.
Neither is the concept of human creativity and expression stupid. Some of the actual created stuff and expression may be, but not the concept. But then, what is 'stupid' in an artistic sense ?
Over the last 40+ years, I've developed a love of many many musical instruments and since the early 80s when I wanted to record, my musical concepts have included classical, Indian, jazzy type instruments {cellos, violins, tablas, sitars, sarods, flutes, saranghis, saxes, trumpets, violas ~ you get the picture} as well as rock and folksy ones. I've been blessed over the years to have friends that play a variety of things and some have helped me lots of times. But I don't know people that play certain instruments and therefore, samples/VSTis are my only option. I've waited since 1984 to meet a sitarist. I've not yet ! I ain't going to wait till I'm approaching my 70s either, not when I can use samples/VSTis.
Is it cheating ? Well, I don't even consider it. I write a song. I have a rough idea of how I want it to go. I think about what instruments I'll use. I think about who can play them. And if there's no one, I'll use a sample. I work hard on them. I won't use prearranged loops. I have done, in a kind of random fashion. But once I'd done it a couple of times, I felt there was nowhere left to go. I'm careful to make sure that my use of VSTis is a supplement to the songs but even if I didn't, fact is, I don't play violin, my mate that does has long since moved but I love the sound and contribution of that instrument. So I'll use it in sampled form. If some of the HR instrumentalists were passing through and they had a few hours to spare, I'd ask them if they could contribute something. But samples are an important part of the musical picture, especially for those of us that work from a lone standpoint. And I look at myself in the mirror each day !
That doesn't even make sense.
I do accept that sometimes, 'art' can be an overused word or can be applied rather liberally. But there are 6 or 7 definitions of 'art', one of which is "human creativity" and therefore it is quite a broad term. I'd be surprized if any term existed that cannot be defined. Their very existence militates against non definition.
Neither is the concept of human creativity and expression stupid. Some of the actual created stuff and expression may be, but not the concept. But then, what is 'stupid' in an artistic sense ?
Aretha Franklin. Diana Ross. Otis Redding. Martha Reeves. Frank Sinatra. Dusty Springfield. Etta James. Ella Fitzgerald. Gladys Knight. Barbara Streisand. Elvis. And I'm sure we could fill this page with thousands of singers from the last 60 years that didn't really write their own stuff or barely played an instrument. Were they not artists ? Does that also apply to instrumentalists that don't/didn't/can't write ?
Crucial points. I've been thinking along these lines for the past few days. If what the OP does can be construed as cheating, then that would have to include most usage of VSTis. At which point, I'd be protesting rather loudly.....
Over the last 40+ years, I've developed a love of many many musical instruments and since the early 80s when I wanted to record, my musical concepts have included classical, Indian, jazzy type instruments {cellos, violins, tablas, sitars, sarods, flutes, saranghis, saxes, trumpets, violas ~ you get the picture} as well as rock and folksy ones. I've been blessed over the years to have friends that play a variety of things and some have helped me lots of times. But I don't know people that play certain instruments and therefore, samples/VSTis are my only option. I've waited since 1984 to meet a sitarist. I've not yet ! I ain't going to wait till I'm approaching my 70s either, not when I can use samples/VSTis.
Is it cheating ? Well, I don't even consider it. I write a song. I have a rough idea of how I want it to go. I think about what instruments I'll use. I think about who can play them. And if there's no one, I'll use a sample. I work hard on them. I won't use prearranged loops. I have done, in a kind of random fashion. But once I'd done it a couple of times, I felt there was nowhere left to go. I'm careful to make sure that my use of VSTis is a supplement to the songs but even if I didn't, fact is, I don't play violin, my mate that does has long since moved but I love the sound and contribution of that instrument. So I'll use it in sampled form. If some of the HR instrumentalists were passing through and they had a few hours to spare, I'd ask them if they could contribute something. But samples are an important part of the musical picture, especially for those of us that work from a lone standpoint. And I look at myself in the mirror each day !
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Same as with all of those female p*rn stars ..... Now that's art for arts sake.
I'm always quoted as saying ... now there is a true artist!
CFox
Banned
Me to save the day again......
DEFINITIONS PEOPLE.
Anyone can be an artist, all they have to do is represent something or claim to be representing something using any detectable medium.
Whether they are a good artist is a separate issue.
DEFINITIONS PEOPLE.
Anyone can be an artist, all they have to do is represent something or claim to be representing something using any detectable medium.
Whether they are a good artist is a separate issue.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Me to save the day again......
DEFINITIONS PEOPLE.
Anyone can be an artist, all they have to do is represent something or claim to be representing something using any detectable medium.
Whether they are a good artist is a separate issue.
And that's why I used P*rn as an example
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
As an art appreciator I would say there are definitely distinguished fellatio artists out there.
Yes but they come and go.
A
AbuseTheMuses
New member
Well watching Karaoke is a lot more entertaining to me than Opera. If the objective is to entertain an audience, drunken karaoke singers succeed just fine with no talent. It's actually the talented ones that annoy me.
kcearl
I see deaf people
lol +1, bad karaoke is an art of its own
aaronmcoleman
The truth is out there!
Greg is always so insightful. I kinda like that he's a bit of an a-hole most of the time.
Oh and BTW Greg, I finally checked out your site and your music is super cool! I especially liked "murder at the drive in".
Oh and BTW Greg, I finally checked out your site and your music is super cool! I especially liked "murder at the drive in".
B
benherron.rrr
New member
. . . so art is all about the circumstances that surround the situation. But art must have a line somewhere or else art would just be the passing of exstance? I personally try to keep an open nutural mind, for example: I hate dance music, becuase when I listen to it, it never clicks with anything in my brain. However, I have many friends who produce dance music, having seen what they can achive and how they achive it I have nothing but respect and admiration for them. Is it art? or is it using technology in a creative way? I hate comercial artists, whos goal is fame and wealth, who have been manrufactured to make money. I do not respect these people in any way. to me I wouldnt consider JB or anyone else for that matter an artist, simply because of the intent behind the cover. However, I would consider ballet an art because of the skill, talent and dicapline it takes, eventhough I dont personally respect or like it. Much like moden art, people earn alot of money for creating pieces of nothing, but creating reason behind it. Is this art? But a man/woman who has taken the time to create masterpiece, not the time to paint/make it but every step that they have taken to get to that place, is this art? This brigs me to the point hat is on topic, about the moralities of music, I belive it comes down to intent and pure crcumstance. If you get a beautiful girl who sounds like crap and edit her to sound good, I belive this is immoral becase of the intent to use music to promote a need for fame. But to take a great musician, even a budding mediocore musician, who is driven, dedicated and determined and edit them to sound great, to enhance the end product, I dont belive this is immorale becuase you are making something with 'true' intent.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
B
benherron.rrr
New member
There is truth in this, maybe because of the world we live in, where anybody can be anything, everybody or nobody is/can be an artist. I belive there should be some kind of diffinative, It keeps 'art' appreciable, not meaning to surround this with pretension
A
AbuseTheMuses
New member
I gotta say I'm inclined in that direction too. I consider myself an "artist" because I create instinctively. I paint (appreciating the visual), I write (conveying a message), I sing (conveying an emotion), I play music (showing off a skill), I compose stuff, all because its the onlly kind of thing I am good at. But I could likewise say a plumber who has a knack for fixing people's pipes (a skill), or a baby screaming (conveying an emotion), or a billboard designer (appreciating the visual) or a news anchor (conveying a message) are all artists too.
"Artist" is a pusswad term applied by/to people because it's too vague to put into detail. "I'm an artist" means less to me than "I'm a waiter" or "I'm a mechanic" or "I deliver pizzas". If I am an artist then so is everyone else, and thus, it means nothing. That ballerina or opera singer or guitarist or karaoke singer might be good at their skill but that's about it. The real world doesn't care except for the end result, in which case, I'd prefer to know the pizza boy than the "artist". At least the pizza boy doesn't have delusions of being special because of it. I am special because I am good at what I do, not because of what it is that I do. If you don't have any use for what I do, I am not special to you. So back to the origional question, if what you do makes something someone wants, then it is good. How it is made is for snot nosed elitists to argue over until the cows come home but wait, they don't have cows, they are "artists", ranching is for the little people.
"Artist" is a pusswad term applied by/to people because it's too vague to put into detail. "I'm an artist" means less to me than "I'm a waiter" or "I'm a mechanic" or "I deliver pizzas". If I am an artist then so is everyone else, and thus, it means nothing. That ballerina or opera singer or guitarist or karaoke singer might be good at their skill but that's about it. The real world doesn't care except for the end result, in which case, I'd prefer to know the pizza boy than the "artist". At least the pizza boy doesn't have delusions of being special because of it. I am special because I am good at what I do, not because of what it is that I do. If you don't have any use for what I do, I am not special to you. So back to the origional question, if what you do makes something someone wants, then it is good. How it is made is for snot nosed elitists to argue over until the cows come home but wait, they don't have cows, they are "artists", ranching is for the little people.
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
A similar discussion came up a while ago, and I questioned the same thought then. There is, as you say, art in a good performance. And Eva Cassidy does some brilliant interpretations of songs. She, and hundreds of others, are artists.
"What is art?" is a question that has been debated countless times over countless years, and I don't think we'll get an answer here.
However, I have noticed a common theme in many of the responses.
It goes like this:
I like it = art
I don't like it = not art
B
benherron.rrr
New member
Couldn't you define art by the part of the brian used to utilize the end product. For exampl: when writing a song, becuase I am not theoretically based, the song is a product of pure emotion, when I write a piece of creative writing, I am using emotion to convay the narrative. When I am writing a formative essay, I am using the logical part of my brain. Like art, can be a product of emotion, or a visual aid to a logical thourght?
I gotta say, I love the opinions that have been brought up in this thread
I gotta say, I love the opinions that have been brought up in this thread
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
It's an appealing idea, but I don't think it quite works. Even though creative writing might use emotion to convey the narrative, it still requires the use of logic to develop coherent grammar and to pick appropriate words. An artist painting a picture may want to convey an emotion through it, but still requires skills and technical ability to transfer paint from palette to canvas.
On the other hand, a formative essay still needs a creative ability to make it interesting for the reader.