Now that everyone has one of these by now . . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessrock
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So Harvey, care to elaborate anymore about how the V67 compares with the 2003?

Would a Presonus MP20 do it justice?

Thanks for sharing!

Alan
 
Scriabin said:


i dont hear any vocals that are competing with the "big boys." the vocal isnt sitting good in the mix and is kind of distracting being placed so upfront . the guitar seemed pretty muddy for being clean. it would have benefited from a brighter mic.
im also hearing a lot of room ambiance in the recording but not the good kind...
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Ouch! Who taught you manners, Scriabin? This isn't the mp3 mixing forum, here. :) I have ears, and I happen to think that the vocal sound he got with that mic and preamp setup sounds awfully professional. The fact that it sounds so "upfront" is what I like about it. Remember, we're talking about the sound of microphone here . . . we're not trying to critique anyone's engineering skills.

I was under the impression that the guitar was intended to sound dark (sort of the mood of the song) . . . but I could be wrong. I think it works, though, and I can tell from listening that the mic sounds good on the guitar, whether or not it was eq'ed or mixed well.
 
The only person that can say for sure if the recording is faithfull or otherwise is the guy that did the recording and mixdown.

FWIW I thought it sounded great, nice and weird with nothing that grated. It kept my attention surely that is all we can ask of a recording.

Nice to see the "B" word not getting Flamed ( but there is time )
 
I'm going to use mine to lay down a track from a grand piano... hopefully today.
I only have one though, so I'll have to "fake" a stereo image.
It'll be running through one of Brent Averill's racked Audix 35102 mic pre's, to a Steinberg AD/DA, and into Nuendo at 24 bit.
I'll post a sample here when I'm done.
 
One size doesn't fit all, now does it? ;)

I can live quite comfortably with the varied opinions on this track because I'm so totally sure that if I had the opportunity tomorrow, I'd record it exactly the same way.

As I said, the sound in the song was something that had lurked around in my head for quite some time. And everything in that song is how I wanted it to be. I heard the band live and felt that here is the band I can try that on! I did it for free and for my own pleasure, they just wanted to record some songs and let me produce to my liking. The band later told me that they had recorded in another better, more wellknown studio and weren't happy with the clean sound they heard and liked my take on things a lot better. Go figure.

I was curious about one thing though, Scriabin, could you point me to a refence point for your opinion of a 'good' room sound?

I suddenly remembered that I recorded my parents grand piano for fun around this new year. I tried X/Y micing with V67's and 603's. If you want to have a listen, check it out: (it's not Scriabin, though.) ;)
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/1/1354/singles
This was my first time micing a grand and it was hard! I didn't get the stereo balance quite right but it's a first... I'd love to see you post your efforts, Michael Jones!

Regards,
/Henrik
 
Valdemar-
Micing a Grand Piano IS hard isn't it!
BIG difference in the Stereo and Mono images on your recording with the V67's!! Definately got to go stereo with those.
The 603's sound, ummm... like small dia. condensors used on a Grand Piano. Not too surprising there.
I haven't recorded anything yet with the V67. (Later today, I hope)
But, I posted this sometime ago:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?190193
It's a 7'-2" Boston Grand miked with a pair of TLM103's.
 
hi,
you'll have to excuse me if i came on to harsh in my previous post. I wrote it very late last night and i was pretty tired and moody. Nevertheless, Id say a great room sound would be the most anything in the beatles catalogue. Abbey Road studios had great room sounds. Also take a listen to ok computer. on track 4 listen to the room reverb...its natural and it was recorded in a room at Jane Seymour's castle. Ill think of some more later.
But the point was the vocal sounded like it was recorded in a 4x4 foot room and i thought it was distracting.
 
Hi Zack,

I'm not ignoring your question. I haven't had much time to record lately, so I want to hold off on giving any full reports.

Best wishes,

Mark H.
 
hi mark,
I understand what you mean... i havent record anything in over 6 months since ive been away at college. Its killing me... and i cant wait for summer to get here so i can finally record something.

Ive never heard any actual music recorded with a t3 so im pretty excited about hearing your results!

thanks,
Zack
 
Michael Jones said:
Valdemar-
Micing a Grand Piano IS hard isn't it!
BIG difference in the Stereo and Mono images on your recording with the V67's!! Definately got to go stereo with those.
The 603's sound, ummm... like small dia. condensors used on a Grand Piano. Not too surprising there.
Click to expand...

Just curious: I've never recorded pianos before, and given the type of music I generally work on, I don't anticipate it any time soon. But I was curious: What kind of mics do you find work for that sort of thing? Do you prefer using large-diaphragm condensors? And if so, what kind of frequency response? Flat? Hyped in the high-end? Dark? Reason I'm asking is because I am hoping to round out my mic collection in order to prepare for any possible surprizes I may run in to. And you never know if I may find myself micing someone's piano up.

Thanks!
 
Valdemar,

let me compliment you on your recording of "New Year's Eve". To quote Joe Meek: "If it sounds right, it is right". That track simply sounds alive, it breathes an has a wonderful openness in it. Brief: It works.

The other day, I read a longish post about people complaining about the latest Red Hot Chili-Album being mostly in mono and clipping like hell. It's a nice thing to have good, educated ears - but why can't we just put on a CD and just press PLAY?

Just my 2 (Euro-)cents.


Michael
 
chessrock said:


Just curious: I've never recorded pianos before, and given the type of music I generally work on, I don't anticipate it any time soon. But I was curious: What kind of mics do you find work for that sort of thing? Do you prefer using large-diaphragm condensors?
Click to expand...
My findings, in my studio, with my piano, show that LD Condensors work best for me. Definately got to have a pair, the closer to being "matched", the better. My preference, of all the mics that I have are the Neumann TLM 103's.

And if so, what kind of frequency response? Flat? Hyped in the high-end? Dark?
Click to expand...
Minimum: 20-20K Hz. Seems to provide better overall detail.
Flat? Hmmm... Flat frequency responses in mics tend to be rather boring. I think it depends on what style of piano playing you're trying to record. I play and record mainly Neo-Classical Piano, and some Jazz standards. So for that style, I still reach for the TLM's. I think, If I were going to record something like "Rag-Time", I'd look for something with a little more detail in the high end. If I were going to record "Rock", I'd want a darker, more bassy mic. It depends on the piano. My Grand has a VERY Dark bass, as it is. I wouldn't choose a mic that would excentuate that, because it wouldn't sound very natural.

Reason I'm asking is because I am hoping to round out my mic collection in order to prepare for any possible surprizes I may run in to. And you never know if I may find myself micing someone's piano up.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well, if you have the money, I'd get a pair of TLM 103's. They work well for me. I'm still experimenting with the MXL V67G on a grand piano. But from what I've done so far, I'm not sure this mic is the best choice for my piano.
The only othe LD Condensors I have (besides the TLM's and the V67) is the BLUE Mouse. This mic is extremely colored, and while an excellent mic for vocals, I just don't like the sound of it on Piano.
I would like to try out a pair of Royer 121's on grand piano, but these are ribbon mics, not LD Condensors.
There's been a lot of talk about the "Studio Projects" line of mics on here as well, and I must admidt, they have sparked my interest. Maybe my next mic purchase will be a pair of C-3's, or something from their "T" series.
Recording such a complex instrument as a Grand Piano is frustratingly difficult, and the faithful reporduction of its sound doesn't end with the mic. You have to really consider the entire signal chain.
~Michael~
 
I live in kind of an artsy neighborhood, and the music scene is sort of neo-punk. With the kind of music I tend to record, a Neumann would be a pretty worthless investment. :)

My new strategy is cheaper mic / better preamp. My hunch is a Marshall V67 or Oktava MC012 through a Grace Design, for example, will be a better choice than a Neumann TLM through an audio buddy or Tube MP. :) At least that's what I'm hoping.

Anyhow, something I do find rather intriguing is the Marshall V93, aka 2003. It's transformerless, and appears to have a similar freq. response curve to the tlm 103 from what I can gather.
 
chess-
Either one of those may prove to be a valid investment for you.
The TLM's are my preference on my piano, in my studio. I think you're right in assessing they may not suit you well for the applications you speak of.
BTW, my pre-amp is a pair of vintage audix 35102's. Very clean, very discrete, but the onboard EQ module allows me to color the sound to suit the application.
From my initial findings, the V67 seems to be kind of bassy, but comparing them to the TLM's, thats probably like the pot calling the kettle black!
 
Wow ! Woudn't you know it. No sooner do I ask, then I get a call from my friend, Liza, asking me if I can record some demos for her. She has a friend with a grand piano, and they want to record some blues stuff. Piano, upright bass, etc.

Anyway, I'm going on location to record just the grand piano tomorrow. I'm thinking of lugging the 1/4" reel-to-reel on over. As far as mics go, I have: 2 behringer ecm8000's, 2 Oktava MC012s, 1 Rode NT2, 1 Marshall V67 to choose from.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Chess
 
Out of that entire list, the only ones I have are the ECM8000's and the V67.
I have actually completed some sample recordings of a large grand piano, using one V67, and a pair of ECM8000's. I can't post them because the up-link to my site isn't working right now.
I could e-mail you some MP3's of the 2 scenerios?

I guess my impressions would be:
The V67 - I found myself rolling off a LOT of bass on this mic. I tried:
1.) micing from the rim,
2.)from inside the lid at mid harp about 12"-15" above the strings, and
3.)in closer to the hammers at about 6"-8" above the strings.
The highs seemed slightly excentuated too, and if you look at the response curve, you can see why.
The best results seemed to come from #2.

The ECM8000's
These actually worked surprisingly well for a grand piano.
They are omni mics, and I used them as a stereo pair, so, its tricky, watch out for phase problems.
I place one mic at about an octave plus a third below middle C, and the other at an octave plus a third above middle C with both capsules at 8" - 10" above the strings, and 12" - 15" back from the hammers.

What mic pre are you going to use?
If it were me, I'd take all the mics you mentioned, and see which ones you like best.

I've had a really hard time getting a faithful sound of grand piano from the V67. I think it can be done, I just need to experiment some more.
 
I'm thinking of taking just the M-audio DMP2 because it's portable and sounds very neutral and quiet. I'll already be lugging a big, heavy reel machine. :)

I suppose I should just play around with them all untill I find a good combo. Your suggestions on where to place them are very helpful. Thanks. My hunch is the NT2 / ecm8000 combo might work out. The NT2 has got the bass rolloff switch, which might prove helpful. It is a bit more hyped in the high end, though, but I know how to cure that with eq if that becomes problematic.
 
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