not sure what to do (flaky band members)

E

eeb

New member
Not sure if this is the forum to talk about this but here we go.

My band got booked on a small tour of northern ontario (we're from sudbury)

I actually am the one who found the guy...(i'm the guy that books our shows, takes care of our myspace, does design etc.)

Anyways so we couldn't all get time off work but all the shows are within 3 hours of home except for one show. We arranged to not play that show (which is tonight) and booked the rest of the week.

We played on monday to a packed bar and it was great. On the way home 2 of the guys decide that they don't wanna do the next show either. It's 2 and a half hours away and they don't wanna get home too late. Me and our drummer were lost for words.. what kind of shitty band bails on a show pretty much the day of. No matter what we said we couldn't convince them to do it.

I'm really bummed cause i love the music we're playing and these guys are all my best friends but I don't think I can play with them anymore.

Any one else have to deal with a similar situation?
 
I don't man that is pretty shitty. Maybe try and dedicate some time in the not too distant future where everyone can book time off from everything; girlfriends work, family... just for long enough to do some distance shows.

try sitting down and talking about it.
 
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You can't skip gigs. You can't cancel shows. That is if you care about the band at all. You guy need to talk. If they don't understand that it's time to part ways.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
You can't skip gigs. You can't cancel shows. That is if you care about the band at all. You guy need to talk. If they don't understand that it's time to part ways.
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this is EXACTLY how I feel about the situation. If they had a problem playing the shows we should have cancelled that show minimum 2 weeks ago.

I've never had to deal with this in a band before..
 
Some people are musicians and some just play music. Figure out who is who and only work with musicians.

I have played for 30 years and have never missed a gig. I've played at church every Sunday morning for the past 5 years and have played when I was so sick I could barely hold my head up, but I wouldn't think of letting my band mates down.

Once, in a bar band I played with, my band mates set up my keyboards for me because the viewing for my deceased mother went till 9 and we had to play at 10.

If you are not dedicated your wasting my time and gonna let the band down sooner or later.

Tell them to be a musician or get out!
 
I've been on both sides of this story- learned my lesson. My friend Tim Foley says, "Bands are for idiots." (I keep quoting him here, wondering if he has joined this forum and/or googles his own name one day and sees it...)

Your post was two hours ago- still time to save this situation, it appears. My suggestions:

Steal ALL the time you can from EVERYTHING else in your life except sleep. Take time off from work, play a few bars of "Beth" for your girlfriend and explain the direness of the situation to her (perhaps she will jump in and help, otherwise she needs to know she will see little of you for the next week or so) eat your meals on the run. But DO get your rest- you don't want to fall asleep at the wheel (apologies to Ray Benson) on the way to the first gig.

Have a one-on-one talk with the two bailers. Point out to them that:
1. They have a obligation, to the clubs, to the public, to you and the drummer. If they want to bail AFTER the obligations are met, that's okay, but not now.
2. They are really messing with their reputation, and yours and the drummer's. People talk. If they don't care about their own rep, they should at least not burn your bridges, too.
3. Even if they don't give a dead rat's ass about either of those things right now, they will almost certainly regret their decision later, and
4. If they truly are your friends, they will do the right thing by you.

Then, line up some replacements, FAST. Don't wait- your friends have already proven to be flaky, they might jump out of the bag, again. Do whatever it takes, including over-paying them if you must. WORK the phone (get your drummer to do the same)- call the musician's union, call everybody you know, call everbody THEY know. Yeah, your band buds will probably get wind of it (less likely if you score with the union)- when they whine, tell them they have taught you that you gotta hedge your bets- they are first in line, but only IF they show up- and if you have paid their share to someone else, they will have to work for free. Be aware that these guys will NOT play the same licks as your current band mates- if they can do some good stuff, let them do it.

Be ready to go on as a trio- or even a duo. If you can't find a bassist to work the shows, get a Digitech Jam Man and a bigger memory card. Get a bassist to session with the drummer, and record the bass tracks directly from amp to the JamMan (which will store 99 tracks), in the order you are doing them. Start each track with a 8 to 16 bit click track. At the show, your drummer is in charge of the JamMan. He turns the knob to track 1, hits the "play" button when everyone is ready. The 8 or 16 beats, thru his monitor, gets him in the tempo. This track should be loud thru his monitors so he stays on tempo- backwards to what he is used to doing, but screw that, you do what you gotta do. If YOU are the bassist, record the bass tracks thusly and LEARN TO PLAY RHYTHM GUITAR for these shows.

And when this is all over, tell the bailers: I need your solumn vow that that will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. If they won't give you that promise (or if you don't believe them) they are outta there ON THE SPOT. Tim tells about a time he fired his bassist MID-SHOW because the guy wouldn't stop eating while playing- Tim looked over at him, he was hammering on/pulling off notes with his fret hand and eating a hamburger with the other. Tim told him to knock it off and attend to the show. Next thing, Tim looks over again- this time it's a slice of pizza. Wham, he was out of there at the next break- the finished the show sans bassist. I got canned from a promising rock band when I let my then-GF lure me out of rehersal by crooking her finger (well, I WAS 18...)

You gotta be strong. In reality, this is YOUR band. A democratic model only goes so far, and usually does not work for a band. You gotta be autocratic at the least, maybe even dictatorial. Grow some balls and kick some ass- it's time.
 
well it is too late for the show last night..

we're still playing thursday and friday.. but after those two gigs we're definately gonna have to talk.

I'm thinking the drummer and I might continue on.. write and record an album ourselves and get someone to play bass live.. I just gotta work on my vocals a bit and we'll be set i think
 
eeb said:
well it is too late for the show last night..

we're still playing thursday and friday.. but after those two gigs we're definately gonna have to talk.

I'm thinking the drummer and I might continue on.. write and record an album ourselves and get someone to play bass live.. I just gotta work on my vocals a bit and we'll be set i think
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I feel your pain. Get the bassist to record the bass parts for your songs on your recording software DAW, then make WAVE files of his performances onto CD. If you have a reliable CD player (or Minidisc), I guarantee you he'll be there every time for future gigs! :D
 
Yonce N Mild said:
You can't skip gigs. You can't cancel shows. That is if you care about the band at all. You guy need to talk. If they don't understand that it's time to part ways.
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That's true; though I think there are limits. If the guy organizing the shows and leading the band gets flaky, I think the rest of the band is less obligated to perform.

For example, the drummer in a band I know skipped their last show because they didn't tell him they even had a show until the last minute.

But in eeb's case. If these guys agreed to play the show weeks ago, they're obligated to show up and play.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
That's true; though I think there are limits. If the guy organizing the shows and leading the band gets flaky, I think the rest of the band is less obligated to perform.

For example, the drummer in a band I know skipped their last show because they didn't tell him they even had a show until the last minute.

But in eeb's case. If these guys agreed to play the show weeks ago, they're obligated to show up and play.
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Absolutely. Band members also need to be clear on their priorities and whoever is scheduling gigs and rehearsals needs to keep that in mind.

For example I'm tied up every Wednesday night until May. I let the guys know about a month ahead of time. My bandmates won't schedule our weekday practice on Wednesday until I'm available. If they do have to schedule on a Wednesday for some reason they won't give me a hard time about not being there.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
Absolutely. Band members also need to be clear on their priorities and whoever is scheduling gigs and rehearsals needs to keep that in mind.

For example I'm tied up every Wednesday night until May. I let the guys know about a month ahead of time. My bandmates won't schedule our weekday practice on Wednesday until I'm available. If they do have to schedule on a Wednesday for some reason they won't give me a hard time about not being there.
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totally agree with this..


actually this little tour was organized in late fall.. lots of time to back out i say.

it actually got worse.. turns out the drummer (the only guy that I still really want to play with) had another offer that he hadn't completely declined yet and after this failed tour he decided to leave..

kinda brutal.. bands fucking suck man.. all i wanna do is write music, make some records, and tour a bit.. nothing crazy.. is that so hard?
 
So, you are losing your entire band. Let me repeat one thing:

Go the Musician's Union, and hire replacements. Be prepared to pay the three of them ALL the money you will make from this mini-tour- that can happen when you are essentially the business owner, and you need "to keep the doors open."

When the dust settles, you will have built the basis of a reputation of a band (or at least a band leader) who honors his obligations, no matter what. THIS IS GOLDEN if you want to keep playing gigs around there. Thank the union musicians and offer them long-term deals if you click with any of them, find permanent band mates, and keep on truckin'.
 
eeb said:
kinda brutal.. bands fucking suck man.. all i wanna do is write music, make some records, and tour a bit.. nothing crazy.. is that so hard?
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yes, it is 'so hard'. unfortunately.

been there, done that.
the other posters have said everything i could've said so i wont say much here.
edit-except-REPUTATION COUNTS!

good luck, eeb.
 
stevieb said:
So, you are losing your entire band. Let me repeat one thing:

Go the Musician's Union, and hire replacements. Be prepared to pay the three of them ALL the money you will make from this mini-tour- that can happen when you are essentially the business owner, and you need "to keep the doors open."

When the dust settles, you will have built the basis of a reputation of a band (or at least a band leader) who honors his obligations, no matter what. THIS IS GOLDEN if you want to keep playing gigs around there. Thank the union musicians and offer them long-term deals if you click with any of them, find permanent band mates, and keep on truckin'.
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I don't know how a musician's union would help..

i've actually heard nothing but terrible things about what they do.

I live in a small city so I pretty much know most of the players in town. Paying dudes to just come out and play is not an option..

i don't get how a broke musician that doesn't make any money in the first place could do that.. I appriciate your input though.. just won't work out for me.

I'm sure i'll find some ppl to play with.. at least this happened on a small tour not a cross canada tour..

I'm almost thinking of going "solo" hahah
 
westgate said:
yes, it is 'so hard'. unfortunately.

been there, done that.
the other posters have said everything i could've said so i wont say much here.
edit-except-REPUTATION COUNTS!

good luck, eeb.
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yeah.. i know..

but i'm not even talking about "making it" or anything like that.. just wanna play..

Seriously the #1 reason why it's so hard to do anything with music is finding like minded musicians to play with. i really believe that.
 
eeb said:
Seriously the #1 reason why it's so hard to do anything with music is finding like minded musicians to play with. i really believe that.
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People are motivated to be in a band for any number of reasons: as a stepping stone to fame and fortune, to present a particular style of music to the public, to look cool and pick up chicks, as a vehicle for their song-writing, as a means of getting out of the house and socialising, or just to play and enjoy playing . . . and so on.

All motivations are personal and valid. And within these motivations are the things that measure the level of responsibility that a person is willing to accept by taking a role in the band. But some are not compatable with others. For example a person who is ambitious and eager to make a mark may have difficulties with someone who is only playing for social reasons and doesn't want to make the effort that the ambitious person requires.

Nevertheless, in any band there will be a mixture of these motivations, and these have to be managed somehow. Ideally you want a group of people with similar, or at least, compatable motivations. It's been my experience that these things are not often discussed when a band is formed (or someone joins a band), and each assumes that the others are there for roughly similar reasons. The weakness of this assumption is hidden until the band is under pressure . . . to do something (or not do something).

Now in your case, it seems like you may be beyond the point of repair. However, one thing that the band I played in did was get together and talk about what our musical aspirations were very early on in the piece. Then we tried as best as we could to accommodate those needs. For about twelve years it went well . . . we were playing regularly, doing gigs we wanted and enjoying our music.

But people's motivations will change over time. There came a time when a band member fell in love and moved interstate. Another became dangerously ill (but was okay in the end). With these things causing me to spend weekends at home rather than out on the road somewhere, I concentrated more on recording. When we got back together after all the crises, we found that the original motivations had changed significantly, and that the appeal of playing was no longer there. So we had an amicable split and started doing the things that were now engaging our interest.

So in a long-winded kind of way, all I am saying is that you need to establish the directions at very early stage with all members, and get agreement on the responsibilities that those directions entail.
 
gecko zzed said:
So in a long-winded kind of way, all I am saying is that you need to establish the directions at very early stage with all members, and get agreement on the responsibilities that those directions entail.
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completely agree.

I've been playing with these guys for a while now and we did establish our goals. They didn't change for me and the drummer but somewhere along the lines they changed for the other 2 guys.

I just wish they woulda let me know that a little bit before we were on the road.

I'm a little less upset about it now.. I'm gonna have a talk with the 2 guys and see where they're at but I'm sure i'll put together a new band or work on doing some solo stuff.

I might take some time and reassess my own goals.

in case anyone is interested this is (or was we'll see) the band

www.myspace.com/rabbittransit

if anyone is interested
 
Perhaps I'm missing something...

But are you really driving 2.5-3 hours every night and then driving BACK to your house at the end of the gig and then doing the same thing again every night of the week?

I don't blame them for saying fuck it. That's kind of ridiculous.
 
Hi there, our band is in a similar situation.

The drummer is one of my closest friends, but he just doesn't cut it as a drummer (skill-wise and dedication-wise). He is late to practice, doesn't help set up and tear down at gigs, etc. etc. He is gone -- we are working on finding a new drummer. Sometimes you gotta face facts. If someone sucks, get rid of them.

Our bassist is next, unless he starts practicing more and maybe getting some lessons.
 
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