Not sure, to gig or not to?

[Jouni]

This is a dilemma for me... believe it.

The "scene" here is this; There's a plethora of metalbands around here, all doing gigs for a meal and a couple of beers, just to get on the stage to be seen. Not effective, done it for a couple of years, nothing changes. It gets on your wallet and nerves in the long run.
Lately I've been really un-interested, if there's a gig for some beers, in some bar where no crowd is to be expected. ..I'm getting old.

I've got a new band. It would actually need the gigging experience. As the only one, the drummer has no gigs behind. He's what worries me. Now...
We have been offered a gig on a local bar, beer and a meal, with a band that's not remotely our genre, to a hostile crowd.
I couldn't care less, and think that would only open the doors to an endless line of similar gigs, as have happened before...
But someone needs the experience... an easy local gig to start with...
But it would also diminish this band right in the level of the plethora...

To gig or not to?...

 

[mikemorgan]

My experiences lead me to believe you should pass on that gig. If your first gig sucks, there's not much effort put into practice after that, and attitudes will surely suffer. Why play for a hostile crowd? His first experience should be a good one, lights, fog machines, free beer, groupies.

 

[ggunn]

This is a dilemma for me... believe it.

The "scene" here is this; There's a plethora of metalbands around here, all doing gigs for a meal and a couple of beers, just to get on the stage to be seen. Not effective, done it for a couple of years, nothing changes. It gets on your wallet and nerves in the long run.
Lately I've been really un-interested, if there's a gig for some beers, in some bar where no crowd is to be expected. ..I'm getting old.

I've got a new band. It would actually need the gigging experience. As the only one, the drummer has no gigs behind. He's what worries me. Now...
We have been offered a gig on a local bar, beer and a meal, with a band that's not remotely our genre, to a hostile crowd.
I couldn't care less, and think that would only open the doors to an endless line of similar gigs, as have happened before...
But someone needs the experience... an easy local gig to start with...
But it would also diminish this band right in the level of the plethora...

To gig or not to?...

What makes you refer to the clientele of the bar and/or the audience for the other band as "hostile"? How hostile? If your music is a very bad a fit for the venue or event, then don't play it. A bad gig is not better than no gig at all, especially for someone for whom it's their cherry outing.

 

[Jouni]

Yes... The "hostile" clientele is derived from the main event, they are a "longterm" local biker/sleaze-rock outfit, the bar is a rock-bar named Nevada. We're rockish, but nonetheless, a blackmetal band.
We released an EP some time ago, and requests to gig have come from metal-bars too... Just in progress of recording another 4 songs to fullfill some split-EP requests.
Having spent last evening reading Sun Tzu-quotes, I'm leaning towards biding my time with the first gig also. Unfortunately, half of the band might turn out eager to do the gig... another can of worms there.

 

[stevieb]

I had some rules for my last gigging band (bluegrass, but hey, a gig's a gig/ a band's a band...) The bluegrass scene here in Atlanta is very similar- too many bands willing to play for free, just for the "experience." As a former boss/roofer used to say, "Hey, we DON'T need the experience." One of my rules- we do NOT play for free. Oh, sure, there were exceptions- we performed free for the SEBA (Southeastern Bluegrass Assoc.) meeting, and each member could name ONE charitable event per year- but otherwise, it was STRICTLY Pay-To-Play. Cash, not beer and food.


I'd pass on the gig, too, but you could play it under an assumed band name- but regardless, I'd have a friend driving the van, and waiting at the stage door with the engine idling- I don't trust bikers any farther than I can throw a Harley (which is still farther than you can expect them to travel under their own power)...

What's a "Blackmetal" band? Or, did you mean a BLACK (i.e. "Afro-american") metal band?

 

[dogonjon]

I cop out for a classic rock band and we have had some awesome shows. Usually our drummer gets so drunk on Jaeger he falls over his kit. On memorial day our bass player took his turn getting so drunk he hallucinated our lead singer was banging his girlfriend while his wife was there. Then he got lost on stage and couldn't find his bass. Good times.

 

[Jouni]

I cop out for a classic rock band and we have had some awesome shows. Usually our drummer gets so drunk on Jaeger he falls over his kit. On memorial day our bass player took his turn getting so drunk he hallucinated our lead singer was banging his girlfriend while his wife was there. Then he got lost on stage and couldn't find his bass. Good times.

Wtf??... that's one messed up dude or one big stage!

 

[stevieb]

Good GOD, dogonjon, you TOLERATE that kind of behavior? Man, I thought I has exhibited/put up with some bad ass stuff... I ain't seen nothin'...

 

[yert33]

I cop out for a classic rock band and we have had some awesome shows. Usually our drummer gets so drunk on Jaeger he falls over his kit. On memorial day our bass player took his turn getting so drunk he hallucinated our lead singer was banging his girlfriend while his wife was there. Then he got lost on stage and couldn't find his bass. Good times.

ROFLMAO!!! Good times, indeed!!

 

[Lt. Bob]

One of my rules- we do NOT play for free. Oh, sure, there were exceptions- we performed free for the SEBA (Southeastern Bluegrass Assoc.) meeting, and each member could name ONE charitable event per year- but otherwise, it was STRICTLY Pay-To-Play. Cash, not beer and food.

a good rule. Benefits or causes or fundraisers are one thing ..... but making money for a bar and getting none of it yourself is something else entirely.
Thing is, once you play for free, it's hard to make the case that you need to get paid because you've set a precedent. I live in DeLand where all the music school kids play for nothing so I end up having to drive 30 miles every night for all of my gigs but I just tell places that want me for less than I'm willing to work for that they can't afford me.

Now, since it's my sole source of income, I realize that I'm probably pickier about getting paid than someone who maybe just does it for fun and some extra cash but the same principals apply. You seem more desirable and a bit exclusive when you set a price and won't budge from it plus you can get in the clubs that don't use crappy free bands.
I agree with stevieb and Mike Morgan, gotta get cash ..... and that drummers' first gig should be awesome and not some dump that wants you to play for free and probably bus tables afterwards.

 

[dogonjon]

Good GOD, dogonjon, you TOLERATE that kind of behavior? Man, I thought I has exhibited/put up with some bad ass stuff... I ain't seen nothin'...

That ain't nothin. Last fall we played the Desert Bar in Parker AZ. Our bass player was driving back from the gig, 7miles of dirt road at 40 mph. A federal marshal pulled him over. Our drummer and him swapped places before stopping cause our base player had a suspended license and got out of jail for the dui earlier that month. Our drummer dodged the dui but the cop had me take the brethalyzer test so I could drive to town. Once in town our drummer started chugging double Jaggies, quickly went insane and was forcibly restrained for 2 hours by our host. I rescued him and sheparded him back to our pad where he punched his fist into the refrigerator and through a wall, clear through to the other side. Good times.

 

[ggunn]

At one gig I played MANY years ago, just as we were getting ready to kick off the first song, the bass player leans over to me and says, "Man, these 'shrooms are goo-ood!" It was a strange gig.

 

[Jouni]

Allright, I can seriously relate to your point about the cash. Valid point there. OK, we're promised usually a cut of the ticket-sale, but after paying the techs and PA rent, that's usually a hundred bucks or so per band... (Usually three bands per night, usually some gig-booker-shmuck taking some in between) ..

But well, it's a publishing event for a magazine advocating local bands, with an exclusive on Metal. ..close enough to charity.
And more importantly, the drummer seems to want it, so I'll go ahead with this gig. I kinda wanna hear us live too.

Just don't think I didn't take heed of your views, the gigs "for the cause" are behind at this age, and I have found my spare time valuable...

AND whatever the realities, If there is no money, it isn't worth the effort to me, I can actually reach probably more people with a recorded piece.
Anyways, still got my daytime job.

 

[ggunn]

I'll play for free in a flash if other factors compensate. I go by the "work-fun-money" equation. If the work is greater than the fun plus the money, I don't play the gig.

 

[Moonrider]

I cop out for a classic rock band and we have had some awesome shows. Usually our drummer gets so drunk on Jaeger he falls over his kit. On memorial day our bass player took his turn getting so drunk he hallucinated our lead singer was banging his girlfriend while his wife was there. Then he got lost on stage and couldn't find his bass. Good times.

You're the kind of unprofessional, no account putzes that shouldn't be allowed in a bar at all, much less attempt to play music in one. Not only do you ruin your own reputation, and the reputation of serious musicians trying to perfect their craft and make some money, you jeopardize the safety of everyone in the same room - no the same fucking CITY that you're in.

We had a drummer get that trashed at a gig once. The rest of the band and I egged the bouncers on as they beat the living shit out of him, then left him lying in the parking lot with his drum set piled around him. He was like your drummer in being too fucking stupid to stay sober at a gig OR driving, so he didn't have a car or a license. He wound up spending the night in the drunk tank. The drums he was too drunk to play spent the night in the parking lot, in the rain. That was the last time I saw his worthless ass.

Haven't missed him a bit.

 

[ggunn]

You're the kind of unprofessional, no account putzes that shouldn't be allowed in a bar at all, much less attempt to play music in one. Not only do you ruin your own reputation, and the reputation of serious musicians trying to perfect their craft and make some money, you jeopardize the safety of everyone in the same room - no the same fucking CITY that you're in.

We had a drummer get that trashed at a gig once. The rest of the band and I egged the bouncers on as they beat the living shit out of him, then left him lying in the parking lot with his drum set piled around him. He was like your drummer in being too fucking stupid to stay sober at a gig OR driving, so he didn't have a car or a license. He wound up spending the night in the drunk tank. The drums he was too drunk to play spent the night in the parking lot, in the rain. That was the last time I saw his worthless ass.

Haven't missed him a bit.

Come on, Moonrider, don't sugar coat it. Tell us how you really feel!

 

[dogonjon]

You're the kind of unprofessional, no account putzes that shouldn't be allowed in a bar at all, much less attempt to play music in one. Not only do you ruin your own reputation, and the reputation of serious musicians trying to perfect their craft and make some money, you jeopardize the safety of everyone in the same room - no the same fucking CITY that you're in.

We had a drummer get that trashed at a gig once. The rest of the band and I egged the bouncers on as they beat the living shit out of him, then left him lying in the parking lot with his drum set piled around him. He was like your drummer in being too fucking stupid to stay sober at a gig OR driving, so he didn't have a car or a license. He wound up spending the night in the drunk tank. The drums he was too drunk to play spent the night in the parking lot, in the rain. That was the last time I saw his worthless ass.

Haven't missed him a bit.

That's a bit harsh. While I don't claim to make a living playing music (I'm a ski instructor, that's my stage banter) I love my band mates and enjoy our gigs in spite of the stupid things that happen. I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything and your reaction to my stories just makes me appreciate them more. Don't get me started reminiscing about the 80's. What happens in Hoquiam stays in Aberdeen.

 

[Lt. Bob]

That's a bit harsh. While I don't claim to make a living playing music (I'm a ski instructor, that's my stage banter) I love my band mates and enjoy our gigs in spite of the stupid things that happen. I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything and your reaction to my stories just makes me appreciate them more. Don't get me started reminiscing about the 80's. What happens in Hoquiam stays in Aberdeen.

I do make my living at it and I find that way harsh.
First off ...... lol@ the idea that one drunk asshole is gonna have any effect on the rep of serious musicians.
While I would never hire a guy again if he got so drunk he couldn't play, I also wouldn't egg anyone on to beat him up.
It's just music ........ not to be taken that seriously.
People who I hire have to be ablke to play well and be professional. But I'm not horrified by the idea that some aren't ...... seen it many, many times ...... no big deal. I just make fun of them forever and don't hire them again.

 

[RejectionNinja]

You're the kind of unprofessional, no account putzes that shouldn't be allowed in a bar at all, much less attempt to play music in one.

One time, at a wine tasting, the wine maker (crazy old lady) started screaming at us to immediately stop drinking the wine because we weren't enjoying it properly.

Her excuse was being a crazy old lady.

You're ripping into this guy because he's not enjoying his rockstar moment properly.

What's your excuse?

 

[ggunn]

I do make my living at it and I find that way harsh.
First off ...... lol@ the idea that one drunk asshole is gonna have any effect on the rep of serious musicians.
While I would never hire a guy again if he got so drunk he couldn't play, I also wouldn't egg anyone on to beat him up.
It's just music ........ not to be taken that seriously.
People who I hire have to be ablke to play well and be professional. But I'm not horrified by the idea that some aren't ...... seen it many, many times ...... no big deal. I just make fun of them forever and don't hire them again.

Just between you and me I'd put money on Moonrider's story being a bit of an exaggeration. Don't tell anyone...