"Not Fade Away"

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miroslav

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
OK...I've never posted in the Clinic before...I dunno, mainly because I didn't want it to appear gratuitous, but I've posted my stuff in some of our HR contests, and anyone can always go to my website to hear some of my stuff (I need to update the site with some of my newer music).

Anyway...I mentioned a few days ago that I would post up a mix in the Clinic that I was finishing this weekend, so here it is.
I think it could use some more touching up, but I was working on this mix for the CLA/Waves contest...so I needed to wrap it up today, and I think it came out good enough to submit as an entry, but here it is also for you guys to preview...and of course, critique as you see fit.

Not Fade Away

If anyone has any questions about any aspect of the production....ask me.
 
Miroslav,
Good song. Mix wise my initial thoughts were that the drums are very narrowly spread in the image.
There's plenty of width through the guitars - & each has it's own space, is clear and solid.
I'm not fussed on the string sample/keyboard sound - but I'm overly enarmoured of old Mellotron sounds of late.
Pretty good mix actually voice & bass dominate & perhaps the kick drum doesn't get much space as a result.
What did you use for the guitar tones?
Cheers
ray
 
Very nice, good sounding, good song.
The song with the soul, I think.
The drums are boring, lack of dynamics and like Ray said to narrow.
Is bass drum a little on the side?
 
rayc said:
Miroslav,
Good song. Mix wise my initial thoughts were that the drums are very narrowly spread in the image.
There's plenty of width through the guitars - & each has it's own space, is clear and solid.
I'm not fussed on the string sample/keyboard sound - but I'm overly enarmoured of old Mellotron sounds of late.
Pretty good mix actually voice & bass dominate & perhaps the kick drum doesn't get much space as a result.
What did you use for the guitar tones?
Cheers
ray
Click to expand...

Thanks Ray!

The drums are just Kick, Snare, HH and the cymbals, so even though I track them with an M/S stereo pair (plus spot mics on Kick and Snare)....we adjusted the OH mics so that the stereo spread wasn't as wide.
In the past, much of my drum tracks were spread full L/R, but not for this song.
I know on my big studio monitors, there's a pretty decent amount of Kick, though I'm never one to really ever push the drums way up in the mix. I like them to be there, but not in your face.

The guitar was recorded through a Swart SST, Fat Head mic, and into a Groove Tubes SuPre...nothing else.



sikter said:
Very nice, good sounding, good song.
The song with the soul, I think.
The drums are boring, lack of dynamics and like Ray said to narrow.
Is bass drum a little on the side?
Click to expand...

Thanks sikter!
Appreciate the "song with soul" comment. :cool:

Yeah, like I mentioned about the drums being a very basic setup...we also intentionally didn't do a single roll or ride.
Actually, that was the starting point of the whole song...using the simplest drum beat that would work with the rest. The only thing that changes is the Kick beat between verses and choruses.
There was a lot of temptation to just let the drums go free...and it was actually a bit tedious doing just the basic two beats...but the goal was to have a simple driving beat that would not get int the way of all the other crap that ended up going into the production. :D
Besides the drums...there's 10 guitar tracks counting the lead...plus 2 piano, 2 organ, 1 strings, 1 bass, and the vocal.

Yes...the Kick is a bit to the left and the Snare a bit to the right.
 
I thought it sounded pretty good. I liked the little guitar riff. I thought the drums sounded good. Snare sounded great.

The bass is a bit loud I think. Some boomy frequency maybe around 100-120 hz or so.

Vocals sound OK, but a little harsh. A little 2700hz zinger in them. Or thereabouts. The piano is kind of harsh too.
 
TripleM said:
I thought it sounded pretty good. I liked the little guitar riff. I thought the drums sounded good. Snare sounded great.

The bass is a bit loud I think. Some boomy frequency maybe around 100-120 hz or so.

Vocals sound OK, but a little harsh. A little 2700hz zinger in them. Or thereabouts. The piano is kind of harsh too.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I was kinda looking for that really big bass..:D

You may be right about the vox and piano...I guess every system will translate stuff a bit differently, and not looking to make excuses, I was really pushing to get the mix somewhat complete in time for the contest which had to be in by today...otherwise I was going to spend more time EQing some of the tracks and what not...but in the end I just ran everything through my console, using just the basic EQ on the board...and the only outboard gear was a comp on the stereo OH pair for the drums, and then a stereo comp on the main L/R bus.
I'm mixing OTB...w/console and rack gear.

I plan on actually *finishing* the mix this coming weekend...so I'm going to pay attention to all the different comments in this thread, and incorporate the suggestions that work with my own ideas.
 
I like simple drums. I would like to hear some snare rolls in here or something, but whatever, that's an artistic thing, not a mix thing.

bass does boom...nice I like it.

guitars are spread well, maybe a little too much panning considering the narrow drums.

Vocals sound good. I might actually pull them a little bit further down in the mix (I almost never say that!).

Cool guitar sounds!

Question: I know you like Overstayer comps and Fat heads...did you use either of those on any of the tracks on here?
 
Thanks for the listen!

Fat Head for all 10 guitar tracks...I think I used a couple of different amps. My Swart being the main one, but I would have to chek my notes, I can't remember which others (if any) were used.
FET Overstayer on the stereo OH drum tracks during mixdown.
Stereo VCA Overstayer on the mixbus during mixdown.
I LOVE the Overstayer comps!!! Hard to make them sound bad.

I agree the vocals ended up just a pinch forward in the mix...which I rarely do, but I was rushing to get the mix done for the CLA/Waves contest...and I'm mixing on a board, so every pass, I might touch a fader here and there, and I think I pushed up the vocal on a previous pass and then should have pulled it back a couple of ticks, but didn't.
I plan on actually finishing up the mix this weekend, but it was good enough for the contest...and they always say that the vocals are what everyone ends up really focusing on...so maybe it was good they are up for this mix. :D

Two of the rhythm guitar tracks were panned a bit wider than I wanted.
I had 4 panned pairs (all individually tracked, no copies)...and I the ones that were more for accent/effect, I wanted wider, but I pushed up the basic rhythm tracks more toward center, and was considering to move two of them even a pinch further...which I probably will in the final mix this weekend.
 
I really like the fat heads on electrics. They're dark, but I find most amps to be too bright.

I know this is not the recording tips section, but how do you set them up, what distance? I've been running one about 6 inches, with a 57 on the grille with my 2x12 amps (one mic on each speaker) and getting some really nice sounds. Or just one in between the two speakers about 12-18 inches away, and sometimes one on the back of an open back cab.
 
Cool tuneage. I like the drum sound. Pretty decent all around. Bass is maybe just a bit heavy but that's a personal preference. Not to shabby sir.
 
aaronmcoleman said:
I really like the fat heads on electrics. They're dark, but I find most amps to be too bright.

I know this is not the recording tips section, but how do you set them up, what distance? I've been running one about 6 inches, with a 57 on the grille with my 2x12 amps (one mic on each speaker) and getting some really nice sounds. Or just one in between the two speakers about 12-18 inches away, and sometimes one on the back of an open back cab.
Click to expand...

Yes...I agree that most amps seem too bright to me. Sure, you turn the tone knob(s), but that's not always the solution....it's not just a matter of turning down the treble or turning up the bass....it's also how the tone stack is voiced by the design. Many have a certain bright spikiness that I don't like. Yeah, it makes the amp tone cut through, but that would be OK for gigs, but for recording I prefer a little less.

I usually put the FH mic about 12"-16"..and I'll kinda get all the way down and stick my ear where the mic will be, and then play a bit on the guitar, while looking for the right place to put the mic (it's not a pretty picture, down on the floor bent over while trying to hold-n-play a guitar :D )

I picked up a Cascade C77 ribbon (this is that HUGE sucker that looks like an RCA clone)...and while it also is a short ribbon like the FH mics, it has the Lundhall tranny, and this being the original C77 design, the front and back are not the same (the changed it on their later design for more symmetry). I used it only on to test out, but I like it, it's different that the FH mics. I will also be using it on some vocal tracks instead of my go-to tube mic (ADK TT/CE)....should be interesting.




Track Rat said:
Cool tuneage. I like the drum sound. Pretty decent all around. Bass is maybe just a bit heavy but that's a personal preference. Not to shabby sir.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Yes...I did like the bass hitting the lows like that. On a big set of speakers...it's great! :cool:
 
It sounds cool man. Not really sure what you could do to make it any better :D
 
I tried the FH on vocals and they sound good for background stuff (really good and sit in the mix perfectly), I didn't like them for leads.

Maybe the C77 will be better for vocals.
 
aaronmcoleman said:
I tried the FH on vocals and they sound good for background stuff (really good and sit in the mix perfectly), I didn't like them for leads.

Maybe the C77 will be better for vocals.
Click to expand...

I agree...the FH is "ok" on vocals if you want a specific color...but I wouldn't consider it a *lead* vocal mic. I have yet to try the C77 on vocals. With the Lundhall tranny, it's not as dark sounding as the FH with the stock tranny, and it has greater extension both high and low without sounding muffled in the lows.
I'll see how it sounds. It might not end up as my go-to lead vocal mic...but I think it should work better than the FH....and I already like it for guitars too, as it also sounds different than the FH on them, so it could work when doing double tracks...FH for one, and the C77 for the other....etc.
I gotta say though...it's one HUGE-ass microphone! If you put it on any kind of boom, you need a serious counter-weight to keep the whole thing from going over. :D
 
Nice job, mix is crystal clear, sounds great here. Other than a few simple drum and bass fills/change ups, I would add during the verses, I thought it was top notch. The vocal sits perfectly like a pro mix, right on top, I'm not straining to hear any words. Great job, thanks for sharin it.
 
Thanks...appreciate the comments. I try to get as much clarity and balance in my mixes even when I have a lot of tracks going on (not always easy)...and while the vocal initially seemed a just bit too up front...I like it like the way it sits with this mic.
Sometimes you can pull the vocal back a bit to allow the rest of the mix to sound a bit bigger, and with some songs it works out OK...but I generally always hated songs where the vocal sits too far back and you can hardly make out the lyrics.
AFA as the drums....I've considered getting my drummer to come back in and do another set of drum tracks...or maybe just "punch -in" some fills/rolls...though I don't think it will make/break the mix either way. It was a production decision at the time, wanting to strip the drums down to nothing but Kick, Snare and HH...and I kinda moved on with it as-is after the drums were done. I don't regret it, but yeah, some rolls/fills in key spots would sound good too.

To tell the truth...there weren't even any cymbals initially...but when I got closer to the end of the mix, I felt I needed just a little something to help accent the choruses and bridge...so I did the crashes myself right before the mixdown.
I've heard of other people using that technique...NOT tracking the cymbals during intial drum tracks, and then adding them later in order to avoid bleed and having individual control over the cymbals....but this was the first time I ever did it, and I think it worked out pretty good. I could get the exact cymbal level and positioning I wanted.
That said...I never much had any real problems with letting the drummer play the cymbals too with the rest of the kit...and as mentioned, this only came about because of the initial decision to keep the drums real basic.
 
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