A
Altaire
New member
Whats the difference between Normalizing, Compression, and Limiting? Im looking up definitions and it seems pretty much all different ways of saying the same thing.
M
mixsit
Well-known member
How so?Altaire said:
Wayne
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Think of your signal as a bouncing ball inside a room; loud sounds are the same as the ball bouncing higher.Altaire said:
Normalizing: You adjust the bounce of the ball till it just barely clears the ceiling. This turns up the small bounces as well as the big bounces, but the biggest bounce is determined by the ceiling height. The ball never actually touches the ceiling.
When you "normalize", you simply turn up everything till the loudest peak just barely clears the ceiling. It's simply a volume control set to make everything louder, but how much louder is determined by the biggest peak.
Compression: The ceiling is made of rubber and you can control the height of the ceiling (threshhold) and how tightly it's stretched (ratio). If the ceiling is very low, and set loose, the ball will be restricted as to how high it can go before the ceiling limits it's movement. Small bounces won't be affected at all, so the end result is that the big bounces are adjustable in height, controlled by both the ceiling height and the tightness of the rubber.
If the ceiling is brought down to around 4' instead of 8', the big bounces (peaks) will be almost the same height as the medium bounces . The "Gain" stage at the end can bring the signal back up in loudness (like a normalizer), but the compressor has changed the relationship between the soft and loud levels.
Limiting: You have a hard, but movable, ceiling. You limit the ball's travel to a fixed height. If the signal tries to exceed that height, it can't. Limiting is like compression, but with a harder, less flexible ceiling.
Idgeit
New member
That actually explains it really well,
Thanks
- Idgeit
Thanks
- Idgeit
M
mixsit
Well-known member
Ah, you did it.
I was trying to lure him..
Wayne
I was trying to lure him..
Wayne
A
Altaire
New member
thanks, i kind of understand, although your ball and cieling analogy confused me even more than if you just said wave frequency,lol
so lemme get this straight, Normalization is basically automatically turning up the volume to just before clip occurs,but doesnt actually change the sound itself; compression kind of brings the lower aural sounds up closer to the frequency of the higher sounds so they blend a little better, and limiting just cuts off anything above a set frequency or drops it down to that frequency, do I have it right?
im sure i would grasp the processes a little better if I actually use them
its just im getting close to the mastering stage and I dont want to muddle my sound doing things I dont need to
so lemme get this straight, Normalization is basically automatically turning up the volume to just before clip occurs,but doesnt actually change the sound itself; compression kind of brings the lower aural sounds up closer to the frequency of the higher sounds so they blend a little better, and limiting just cuts off anything above a set frequency or drops it down to that frequency, do I have it right?
im sure i would grasp the processes a little better if I actually use them
its just im getting close to the mastering stage and I dont want to muddle my sound doing things I dont need to
Farview
Well-known member
You are confusing frequency with threshold. All of these have to do with volume and dynamics, nothing to do with frequency. That might be why you are confused.
A
Altaire
New member
yeah i think i am using the terms interchangably in my head...i dont really get the difference
Farview
Well-known member
Frequency is pitch. High frequency=high notes low frequency=low notes
normalisers, compressors and limiters all play with volume, not pitch.
normalisers, compressors and limiters all play with volume, not pitch.
CoolCat
Well-known member
like a home stereo, i'll assume you have. Freq=Tone, Volume=Loudness/amplitude.
or a guitar ,
TONE.. like Freq of each string..A 440hz..G, B,E etc..
VOLUME being how loud you turn it up or slam the chords....
a compressor can help "smooth" out the soft and hard strums. kind of maintain electronically a steady volume of the guitar strumming.
a limiter is good for "protecting" your other equipment by giving it a volume "limit". So your buddy can turn up the fuzz pedal, the guitar to 11..but your limiter will decide/limit the volume into the recorder unit, for example...some call them Insurance from destroying equipment.
(usually set below 0db or below the Red line to prevent audio distortion).
a normalizer, it just kind of raises the volume on everything, like turning up the rec-level on a recorder unit... its like a Rec-volume knob imo.
Software you highlight the wave, tell it what volume Louder or Softer, in dB's...you can raise the volume on a whole song...and even a whole set of other songs!! all "Normalized" to the same level before burning a homegrown CDR MASTER Album of 10+ tracks. its slick, yes....in concept.
but it doesn't change anything, doesn't smooth anything...
and unfortunately, it doesn't magically make those 4qty crappy HR mixes I did in 1988 sound like a professional-mastered compilation all of a sudden...i'm still waiting for that software. 
or a guitar ,
TONE.. like Freq of each string..A 440hz..G, B,E etc..
VOLUME being how loud you turn it up or slam the chords....
a compressor can help "smooth" out the soft and hard strums. kind of maintain electronically a steady volume of the guitar strumming.
a limiter is good for "protecting" your other equipment by giving it a volume "limit". So your buddy can turn up the fuzz pedal, the guitar to 11..but your limiter will decide/limit the volume into the recorder unit, for example...some call them Insurance from destroying equipment.
(usually set below 0db or below the Red line to prevent audio distortion).
a normalizer, it just kind of raises the volume on everything, like turning up the rec-level on a recorder unit... its like a Rec-volume knob imo.
Software you highlight the wave, tell it what volume Louder or Softer, in dB's...you can raise the volume on a whole song...and even a whole set of other songs!! all "Normalized" to the same level before burning a homegrown CDR MASTER Album of 10+ tracks. its slick, yes....in concept.
but it doesn't change anything, doesn't smooth anything...
and unfortunately, it doesn't magically make those 4qty crappy HR mixes I did in 1988 sound like a professional-mastered compilation all of a sudden...i'm still waiting for that software.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Actually I found a piece of hardware that really works wonders on my old matzoah ball recordings...COOLCAT said:unfortunately, it doesn't magically make those 4qty crappy HR mixes I did in 1988 sound like a professional-mastered compilation all of a sudden...i'm still waiting for that software.
It's called a degausser.
G.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Normalizing 100% takes the highest peak and adjusts the level of the entire track so the peak reaches just under digital "0". The levels of every part of the track are moved up the same amount.
With limiting, the peaks get lowered by whatever amount you designate. Meaning that the low level parts of the track actually become closer in volume to the peaks, thereby reducing the dynamic range of the track.
The problem with normalizing is with regard to the "apparent volume" levels of the track. Lets say you have two tracks, both with the same peak of -10db. In one track the level never goes below -20, but in the other the lowest volume level goes down to -30. If you normalize and bring the peaks of both tracks to the same higher level, you'll still have one track that has an apparent volume level a lot lower than the other, because the dynamic range has not been reduced.
With limiting, the peaks get lowered by whatever amount you designate. Meaning that the low level parts of the track actually become closer in volume to the peaks, thereby reducing the dynamic range of the track.
The problem with normalizing is with regard to the "apparent volume" levels of the track. Lets say you have two tracks, both with the same peak of -10db. In one track the level never goes below -20, but in the other the lowest volume level goes down to -30. If you normalize and bring the peaks of both tracks to the same higher level, you'll still have one track that has an apparent volume level a lot lower than the other, because the dynamic range has not been reduced.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Let's try this again:Altaire said:
Compressors and limiters reduce the dynamic range of the music, by turning down the loud parts. A lot of compressors and limiters also have a "make-up gain control", usually as the last control on the unit. That's a simple amplifier volume control that lets you turn up everything - AFTER you've knocked down the loud parts (by using the other knobs on the compressor or limiter).
If you just used that "make-up gain control" to raise the loudest signal to 0dB (without using any of the other knobs), you would be "normalizing".
Compression and limiting is not about high and low; it's all about loud and soft. Compressors and limiters simply turn down the loudest parts of the music.
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
Pic 1 shows the original waveform
Pic 2 shows the normalized waveform... basically turning up the volume until it peaks out somewhere at 0 dBFS
Pic 3 shows the original file being compressed... note the peaks are reduced in volume and thats it.
Pic 4 shows heavy limiting (sounds like crapola). The waveform is flat. This is most similar to setting the compressor to compress peaks to an infinite level.
Pic 5 shows a combination of limiting then normalizing the track to get it louder.
These are vague oversimplifications. Dont ever do what I did with a waveform in Sound Forge. ugh. *shudder*
Pic 2 shows the normalized waveform... basically turning up the volume until it peaks out somewhere at 0 dBFS
Pic 3 shows the original file being compressed... note the peaks are reduced in volume and thats it.
Pic 4 shows heavy limiting (sounds like crapola). The waveform is flat. This is most similar to setting the compressor to compress peaks to an infinite level.
Pic 5 shows a combination of limiting then normalizing the track to get it louder.
These are vague oversimplifications. Dont ever do what I did with a waveform in Sound Forge. ugh. *shudder*
Attachments
CoolCat
Well-known member
great jpgs.
never thought of limiters that way...shaves the top and bottom!
so this is what everyone says
"slamming it..takes the dynamics out of the recordings" ?
i kept hitting the play buttons but no sound?
never thought of limiters that way...shaves the top and bottom!
so this is what everyone says
"slamming it..takes the dynamics out of the recordings" ?
i kept hitting the play buttons but no sound?
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Yep, I call it giving them a crew cut.COOLCAT said:
And people wonder why I say that using limiters gives a very "inorganic" sound as compared to manual peak editing...
G.
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
what are you talking about?
I have plenty of instruments here that have no dynamic range!
I have plenty of instruments here that have no dynamic range!
Farview
Well-known member
instruments yes, mixes no.
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
it was a joke.Farview said:
Everything should have some sort of dynamic headroom. Mixes included.