nOOb question about how to record singing at a decent quality

[Richard Monroe]

Yeah, I read the OP's post, and immediately responded to it. I asked him what gear he already had, what kind of room he was recording in, and what "cheap" means to him. That's because in some contexts, a $500 preamp *is* cheap. There's a lot of people on this board, and I'm not kidding. I've read posts just like the one that started this thread, and come to find out, he's using a Neumann U87 into an Avalon 737! I think the answer to that poster is different than a guy who's using a Nady condenser into a Tascam portastudio. Of course, he didn't answer the question. This may be because he's horrified that there isn't a one line answer to his question, or because he's horrified by the flaming dogfight his question started.
I guess the real question is- how do you help anybody? Sometimes you do it by giving them a reality check. Sometimes, there really is a simple answer. The OP asked one of the hardest questions there is, because the real answer is- you find a combination of a mic and a preamp that makes you sound the way you want to sound, in whatever room you have.
Based on the limited info given in the original post, we don't even know what format the tracks he's trying to overdub onto are in. We don't know if he's a gangsta rapper or an operatic tenor. I simply reacted to an over-reactive flaming of Massive Master, because he basically stated that toob amps are marketing hype, and aren't good for much, which I totally agree with. The only answer that could be given to the OP based on the info he gave us is- You need a microphone and a preamp that is compatible with whatever gear you have, and it can't cost more than you can afford.
So what does he get? The only kind of answers that you can give with *no information*- "Gee, reverb can be very cool"- " Maybe a condenser/dynamic/ribbon Mic?"- "How about a preamp?" It's what he got, because it's what he gave. And if you choose not to respect the opinions of working professionals with years of experience, that's your right. It just seems like it must be a lot of work to spend so much energy being angry all the time because you don't like the way people try to help. What the hell?-Richie

 

[Steenamaroo]

and breathe!

 

[Jakedafake]

Again, the tube has NOTHING to do with the signal chain on most of these things. It's all starved-plate, cheap marketing crap. You could probably replace the tubes by jumping the contacts with paper clips. Behringer makes a unit that has a slow-start LED behind the tube to make it appear as if there's actual voltage running through it - IT - a single tube (in a stereo unit).
[/SIZE]

Whilst I agree with Massive regarding tube mythinformation that single tube you mention is probably a 12ax7/12at7 which is actually two amps in one and therefore all that is needed for a stereo preamp.

 

[kcearl]

Yeah, I read the OP's post, and immediately responded to it. I asked him what gear he already had, what kind of room he was recording in, and what "cheap" means to him. That's because in some contexts, a $500 preamp *is* cheap. There's a lot of people on this board, and I'm not kidding. I've read posts just like the one that started this thread, and come to find out, he's using a Neumann U87 into an Avalon 737! I think the answer to that poster is different than a guy who's using a Nady condenser into a Tascam portastudio. Of course, he didn't answer the question. This may be because he's horrified that there isn't a one line answer to his question, or because he's horrified by the flaming dogfight his question started.
I guess the real question is- how do you help anybody? Sometimes you do it by giving them a reality check. Sometimes, there really is a simple answer. The OP asked one of the hardest questions there is, because the real answer is- you find a combination of a mic and a preamp that makes you sound the way you want to sound, in whatever room you have.
Based on the limited info given in the original post, we don't even know what format the tracks he's trying to overdub onto are in. We don't know if he's a gangsta rapper or an operatic tenor. I simply reacted to an over-reactive flaming of Massive Master, because he basically stated that toob amps are marketing hype, and aren't good for much, which I totally agree with. The only answer that could be given to the OP based on the info he gave us is- You need a microphone and a preamp that is compatible with whatever gear you have, and it can't cost more than you can afford.
So what does he get? The only kind of answers that you can give with *no information*- "Gee, reverb can be very cool"- " Maybe a condenser/dynamic/ribbon Mic?"- "How about a preamp?" It's what he got, because it's what he gave. And if you choose not to respect the opinions of working professionals with years of experience, that's your right. It just seems like it must be a lot of work to spend so much energy being angry all the time because you don't like the way people try to help. What the hell?-Richie

no ones angry...

and if you think the three posts from your buddy, a seasoned professional in the industry, were helpful then Im glad Im not putting up with that kind of arrogance on a daily basis..only Disease8 seemed to go out his way to actually help...regardless of the OPs equipment or lack of information

opinions were asked for..its up to you whether you want to give them or not

like I said...Ive seen this on a dozen forums...same shit different subject

 

[kcearl]

Whilst I agree with Massive regarding tube mythinformation that single tube you mention is probably a 12ax7/12at7 which is actually two amps in one and therefore all that is needed for a stereo preamp.

it was 12ax7's..and the difference between the stock, a sovtek, a Mullard and a 1964 Raytheon were significant in both the ART and the MIC100..

not the greatest valves but all made the units sound differ, and in my opinion, warmer...there I said it lol

Not bad for two sub $100 preamps all in all...

 

[Massive Master]

Tell me what cheap gear or suggestions did Master make?

Sorry- M-Audio's DMP3. Amazingly decent preamp for the $$$.

 

[kcearl]

Sorry- M-Audio's DMP3. Amazingly decent preamp for the $$$.

yup...fair enough...would have went for one myself but never saw one for under $200CAD...maybe next time

 

[Disease8]

I am shocked....

It seems like some people (massive, Monroe) have no intention of helping anybody but instead want to feed, and reinforce their egotistical personalities... Maybe before correcting people you should listen to the question THINK of the ramifications and the context... Don't call people noob when you don't know what they have achieved or what there needs are...
I would never ever recommend an M-audio product over an ART product I hate M-Audio (generlization) but that's neither here nor there... We shouldn't be replying to people's posts but all be trying to help the orignator of this thread who now is quivering behind a couch peeking at his computer and never going near a mic again! lol

Kcearl: You are one of the only people that have made sense in this thread, I don't agree with everything you said but your opinion is very valid because you ARE TRYING TO HELP!
As for high end users that are over opinionated and to proud of there really expensive mic's that are made in china that only sound slightly better than a £200 chinese OEM mic. Please read the title of the forum read the questions and STOP SHOWING OFF!!!!!

(note to moderators: aren't you guys moderating? Keep threads to the topic and people in line? seem to be a lot of unhelpful people on this forum...)

 

[Disease8]

And warmth???

Sorry but to me warmth seems totally obvious and doesn't need an explanation...
But my one is this: Adding timbre's of advantageous qualities to the original sound...
This could also apply to the description "crisp" but they are different frequencies...
I have found that Tubes ad more of these nice sounding timbres than a solid state mic which on the other hand maybe more "crisp" (neutral, bright and low noise).
So it is up to the user, do yo want to add nice frequencies or have a very honest mic with low noise? (generalizations here because I know you can get solid state that adds more than being neutral but works for the example).

Am I going to start another argument or is that roughly it in other peoples perspectives???

Wondering now maybe we can all have a conversation and be friendly?

 

[Disease8]

M-audio dmp3

Sorry that looks really nice its mostly software problems I have with M-audio this pre amp is well sexy (I want one lol)

 

[Steenamaroo]

As for high end users that are over opinionated and to proud of there really expensive mic's that are made in china that only sound slightly better than a £200 chinese OEM mic. Please read the title of the forum read the questions and STOP SHOWING OFF!!!!!

who are we talking about here?

 

[Disease8]

Master and Darrin... Just think its a bit useless telling someone to go and buy top end gear when they are recording in their bedroom

 

[Steenamaroo]

idk man,,,i didn't take that from what master was saying...

i recommended that a beginner (assuming the op is a beginner) avoided cheap condensers, cos personally, i feel i have gained better results from cheap(ish) dynamics..


seems like master was making a similar statement about cheap valve preamps?


i guess if you combine the opinions, the op should consider a something like a dmp3 and a senn/shure dynamic,,,,if it suits what he does..

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Master and Darrin... Just think its a bit useless telling someone to go and buy top end gear when they are recording in their bedroom

First, not everyone who is a "home recorder" is a kid in their bedroom with no money and no talent; "home recording" simply means self-recording, which covers a wide gamut of people from college students in dorm rooms to seasoned musicians building their own pro-grade studios in a new room addition on their house.

Second, after spending years here, I can guarantee you that even to the dorm recorder, "home recording" means they are expecting - rightly or wrongly - to make recordings that they can stick up on meSpace or put in the middle of their WMP or mePod playlist, or send to their college radio station, along with all the commercially-produced MP3s they have of their favorite bands, and have their recording fit right in.

Some variation of "How can I get my recording to sound like the pros" is invariably the question that winds up being asked here, and as soon as that's asked, you are no longer talking about just "home recording" but rather how to make a "pro-sounding recording". And the answer is pretty simple; "Do it like the pros do it."

Does that mean you *have* to go out and get all top-shelf stuff? No (but it helps ). It means that it's going to take time and dedication and work, and that you can't just go out and buy a Shatner 2000 studio-in-a-box from a couple hundred bucks, grab yourself a few dozen plugs (free or illegally) and be crankin' out the Billboard hits the next day.

It also means that this is a complicated field, whether you're just treating it as a hobby or not, that the difference between suck and not suck is not the click of a button or the purchase of a gizmo away (whether it costs $100 or $10,000), but rather requires study and practice to get good at it. It is not easy, regardless of what the advertisers in the magazine tell you.

And "learning" does not mean following the popular advice off the internet from other people who haven't learned from first principles themselves. There's so many over-simplifications and myths and outright incorrect information out there that newbs just keep telling newbs and spreading all over the Internet, because it sounds like it should make sense or because it appears to make the answers easy and uncomplicated, and all they are doing - as well-intentioned as they may be - is f__ing things up for each other.

So let's climb down off that false "this is only home recording" high-horse and understand that folks like John (Massive Master) and the rest know what they are talking about and are here for a reason; and that reason sure ain't because they're have fun by answering the same newb questions over and over and over again. They're here because those questions need correct answers.

G.

 

[Steenamaroo]

very well put glen, couldn't agree more.


also, this Shatner 2000.....i don't see em on ebay! do you have one that i could buy?????

 

[kcearl]

are we there yet?

 

[Steenamaroo]

where??????

 

[kcearl]

there of course < sheesh >

 

[Steenamaroo]

i think we're gettin there...."ya hear that??he's gettin there"

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

also, this Shatner 2000.....i don't see em on ebay! do you have one that i could buy?????

No, I actually stole that name from another product sold in the 80s; the Shatner2k was a combination industrial-strength steel wool pot scrubber and hairpiece.

G.