no tracks clip except the master fader?

[Change of POETS]

isnt it different for hip hop tho when it comes to that because in hip hop the kick is suppose to be loud and have a big boom to it. does that mean i have to put a multiband compressor on the beat and lower the kicks volume so it wont clip?

It doesn't matter what genre you're mixing. Mixing too hot is mixing too hot.

Turn your tracks down, and create some headroom. Like John said, I prefer nothing to peak over -6dbFS while in mixing. It leaves decent room for an ME to do their work in mastering. That headroom is necessary, so make it happen.

If you find that turning your tracks down hurts your mixing ability due to volume constraints, turn your monitors up.

 

[Mindset]

It doesn't matter what genre you're mixing. Mixing too hot is mixing too hot.

Turn your tracks down, and create some headroom. Like John said, I prefer nothing to peak over -6dbFS while in mixing. It leaves decent room for an ME to do their work in mastering. That headroom is necessary, so make it happen.

If you find that turning your tracks down hurts your mixing ability due to volume constraints, turn your monitors up.

I agree too, what are you monitoring at anyways? turn down the faders, and turning up the monitors to a listening level of around 83-85db and you wont' have to over drive everything just to hear it. Mastering engineers hate it when everything is peaking, gives them no room to work. Mixing, you want it not to go over -6 max, remember this is not the end of the song man. There's further processes that go into finishing a song, album, commercial, whatever it may be. Mastering engineers will take care of the rest, you just create a good mix to work with. You definitely need more headroom.

 

[Reggie]

Also, what software are you working with? Some DAW software dosn't actually clip as soon as you see a red light. The red light can indicate a point safely before you reach clipping. But that depends on what you're working with.

It's not so much what you see, it's what you hear.


A common mistake is that red lights automatically mean "clipping". The truth is, red lights mean whatever the manufacturer specifies them to be.

A lot of DAW softwares dosn't actually clip in the red because they are floating the bits around for you, so you don't have to listen to the nastiness that is going to occur when you actually export the mixdown to a new digital file.
And dang, you guys are getting way too technical for our simple hip-hopper. Here is the simple answer: insert a compressor/limiter on the master bus to keep the ceiling under 0db. Simple. If you don't like the sound of having a compressor/limiter across your tracks, then you are going to have to get in there and move some faders downward, but that is a little more tricky.

 

[Massive Master]

Here is the simple answer: insert a compressor/limiter on the master bus to keep the ceiling under 0db.

That is SO the *wrong* answer...

 

[Ford Van]

That is SO the *wrong* answer...

No, not always! I know a LOT of guys that mix with a compressor on the master buss, because they LIKE what it does to the mix.

 

[danny.guitar]

No, not always! I know a LOT of guys that mix with a compressor on the master buss, because they LIKE what it does to the mix.

Yea, but using one to prevent clipping instead of simply moving the fader down seems pointless to me...

 

[LeeRosario]

No, not always! I know a LOT of guys that mix with a compressor on the master buss, because they LIKE what it does to the mix.

well in terms of master buss compression, I think that one is always up for debate.

To compress a mix buss for effect and to patch up excessive clipping are two completely different things.

A lot of DAW softwares dosn't actually clip in the red because they are floating the bits around for you

true reggie, but remember, software designers also have the ability to specify exactly when that light comes on in the coding. They can code that light to turn on well before digital zero. Example: when you've "clipped" in Pro Tools LE, you still get about a 3db headroom, whereas in HD, clipping means you've reached full digital scale, but are well below clipping. That freaks PT LE users out the first time.

It still leads me to beleive that as long has anyone can identify what clipping *sounds* like, there's little reason to be primarily concerned about a red light.

 

[Robert D]

It doesn't matter what genre you're mixing. Mixing too hot is mixing too hot.

Turn your tracks down, and create some headroom. Like John said, I prefer nothing to peak over -6dbFS while in mixing. It leaves decent room for an ME to do their work in mastering. That headroom is necessary, so make it happen.

If you find that turning your tracks down hurts your mixing ability due to volume constraints, turn your monitors up.

We all agree that the mix is too hot, it's the cause and cure that are under debate.

The OP said "its really the kick in the beat that makes it clip but if i lower the beat so the kick wont clip the other sounds get real low. i didnt make the beat either so i can go back and lower the kick itself"

I think everyone's interpreting this as meaning the mix gets too low, and saying just turn up the monitors. What I'm hearing here is that when he turns down the beat track to get the kick in control, the rest of the beat track gets too quiet. This sounds to me like there's too much energy in the embedded kick, eating up all the headroom when the rest of the elements in the beat track are where he wants them. In this genre, this must be a regular problem, but as xstatic said, there are ways of keeping something out in front without it destroying the mix. I would never leave this problem to be delt with downstream in the process, though I do acknowledge Mr Vans point that sometimes buss compression can sound good, even if technically the wrong approach. Recording history is full of cool results from the "wrong" approach.

 

[Ford Van]

Yea, but using one to prevent clipping instead of simply moving the fader down seems pointless to me...

Why? Same difference really.

 

[Change of POETS]

We all agree that the mix is too hot, it's the cause and cure that are under debate.

The OP said "its really the kick in the beat that makes it clip but if i lower the beat so the kick wont clip the other sounds get real low. i didnt make the beat either so i can go back and lower the kick itself"

I think everyone's interpreting this as meaning the mix gets too low, and saying just turn up the monitors. What I'm hearing here is that when he turns down the beat track to get the kick in control, the rest of the beat track gets too quiet. This sounds to me like there's too much energy in the embedded kick, eating up all the headroom when the rest of the elements in the beat track are where he wants them. In this genre, this must be a regular problem, but as xstatic said, there are ways of keeping something out in front without it destroying the mix. I would never leave this problem to be delt with downstream in the process, though I do acknowledge Mr Vans point that sometimes buss compression can sound good, even if technically the wrong approach. Recording history is full of cool results from the "wrong" approach.

Agreed.

This is one of the major problems in recording over a stereo mixdown instrumental, instead of mixing vocals with all elements of the instrumental itself.

Controlling the kick alone in the stereo mixdwon via compression, is going to be difficult. It can be done, but it's going to have to be very subtle compression, and possibly a chain of subtle compression on multiple compressors.

I'd rather take my chances with EQing some of the boominess out, and allowing more room for the rest of the track to play. That will allow more headroom. Combine that with a bit of compression on the master buss to meld the vocals and instrumental mixdown together, and it just might work.

 

[Ford Van]

The point I am making is that in some cases, compressing the master buss offers a desired result. We keep talking about making the mix as close to possible as to what you want to hear, yet, when this good tool is mentioned, everybody freaks out about how it is not a good approach to mixing, even though MANY top notch engineers do this very thing!

There are NO rules in audio production, ONLY what works for your particular production and what doesn't. The less "rules", the more creative you can be in mixing.

A quick trip down to the mp3 clinic on this site, or clicking around on some signature links will quickly show that many here need to think a bit more creatively!

 

[Change of POETS]

The point I am making is that in some cases, compressing the master buss offers a desired result.

I think (at least for me) as long as we keep it in this perspective, it holds very true. It gives you a desired effect, a certain sound... If that's what the track needs, by all means, compress away. But I think too often, some engineers utilize compression on a buss to cut corners... Say, by compressing their drums through a buss, to give them a bit of glue... Instead of accurately EQing each kick/tom/snare etc... and making them fit together nicely. Sure, the right way takes more time, but it also yeilds a much better result. But as you said, if you're looking for that certain sound that you get from compressing on the buss, by all means do it.

In this day and age, I think too many young engineers are relying on compression far too often. But that's just me...

 

[danny.guitar]

The point I am making is that in some cases, compressing the master buss offers a desired result. We keep talking about making the mix as close to possible as to what you want to hear, yet, when this good tool is mentioned, everybody freaks out about how it is not a good approach to mixing, even though MANY top notch engineers do this very thing!

I won't disagree with you there. But I just think putting a limiter/compressor on the master bus when all you need to do is bring down a fader seems stupid. If you're going for a desired effect then that's completely different.

or clicking around on some signature links will quickly show that many here need to think a bit more creatively!

I hope you're not talking about mine. Even though all I have up there right now is a couple crappy recordings.

 

[Ford Van]

I think (at least for me) as long as we keep it in this perspective, it holds very true. It gives you a desired effect, a certain sound... If that's what the track needs, by all means, compress away. But I think too often, some engineers utilize compression on a buss to cut corners... Say, by compressing their drums through a buss, to give them a bit of glue... Instead of accurately EQing each kick/tom/snare etc... and making them fit together nicely. Sure, the right way takes more time, but it also yeilds a much better result. But as you said, if you're looking for that certain sound that you get from compressing on the buss, by all means do it.

In this day and age, I think too many young engineers are relying on compression far too often. But that's just me...

Compressing a buss has a very unique effect that you cannot replicate in any way with "accurate EQing".

 

[Ford Van]

I won't disagree with you there. But I just think putting a limiter/compressor on the master bus when all you need to do is bring down a fader seems stupid. If you're going for a desired effect then that's completely different.



I hope you're not talking about mine. Even though all I have up there right now is a couple crappy recordings.

I am not naming names. If the shoe fits........

 

[Change of POETS]

Compressing a buss has a very unique effect that you cannot replicate in any way with "accurate EQing".

Yes, I know. I'm saying too many "engineers" use it as a shortcut to get their sounds melded together instead of using EQ as they should.

 

[Ford Van]

Yes, I know. I'm saying too many "engineers" use it as a shortcut to get their sounds melded together instead of using EQ as they should.

How can you possibly know that? If I played you a bunch of my work, could you tell me what I intended to do?

 

[Change of POETS]

How can you possibly know that? If I played you a bunch of my work, could you tell me what I intended to do?

I don't recall saying you weren't capable of doing it correctly?

I get a lot of mixes from clients with overcompressed percussive sections, and it's generally because they run them through a buss and compress them to get as much volume as possible. I've confirmed it with more than one client...

But when done correctly, it yeilds a nice effect.

 

[LeeRosario]

How can you possibly know that? If I played you a bunch of my work, could you tell me what I intended to do?

you know, it's funny you bring that up....

"In judging a man's artistic interpretation, you're judging his character".

Those are the words a very wise man passed on to me. And quite honestly, because of that, I always refuse to assume or judge what anyone intends to do on a mix. No matter how good or bad any mix may be.

Of course, I always word it like, "well if it was me who did the mix..."

But I'm just rambling....

 

[ecktronic]

lower all the other tracks together by the same amount until the clipping stops. I personally would lower the track faders by the necessary amount.

That wont work really.
If you lowered all the faders by 3dB each then the mix would not be the same as before the faders were moved, unless every fader was set at the exact same level before moving.

I dont know the whole law of changing dB really though or I would explain more.

Eck