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rguagenti
New member
Okay!
Polka On too.
Respectfully submitted....
Goodnight Groucho
Polka On too.
Respectfully submitted....
Goodnight Groucho
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chessrock
Banned
ChristopherM said:
By and large, it's pretty subdued.
Most of the rap artists I have in here will have some reference to drive by shootings or something of that nature. MOST, Chris, not just a few. And we're not talking about using it as a pop culture commentary for artistic reference.
We're talking "I'm gonna' pump your head full 'a holes and make a widdow of your woman" kind of stuff. I don't see the art in it after about the 200th guy who does it . . . nor do I see it as being of any benefit to society by and large -- other than to that individual's machismo rating.
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mstudio1224@aol.com
New member
I guess I'm a cross polination of both musical tastes
I currently record R&B, now the ubiquitis R&B/Hip Hop
but I also love my Rock, shall I say my funk rock/Lenny,Prince,Sly
the difference is rock takes a more intricate setting up procedure than R&B does.
micing drums - rock
sampled drums - R&B/Hip Hop - saves time, but to play how an actual drummer plays takes talent
actual bassist -- rock
actual bassist, but sometimes a synth -- R&B/Hip Hop
Keyboardist -- rock
Keyboardist -- R&B/Hip Hop
they take nearly the same aspects to make a song good, not all R&B/Hip Hop are samples, such as I do, I play drum & bass, but because I cannot depend on a BAND, I have to do it all myself, this requiring MIDI. I will agree that Hip Hip is repititious to a degree, but sometimes I listen to rock, and all the up front guitar to an outside ear can sound repetitious too, even though it's moving around, the mere fact it's always an upfront lead solo-------wailing --- one would say (if they didnt listen to rock) ----- that sounds the same as that other band.
hence we ALL sound alike.
but hey, it's to each his own, music reaches beyond barriers and what we dont understand, someone else does, it's just the way of the world.
rguagenti---as you stated about the BEATLES, I agree, but I even liking ROCK, dont like the BEATLES, I honestly dont get them, never did, but I respect what they did, but I did listen to the ANTHOLOGY and loved their jam sessions -- (they were inventive and creative) I just didnt hear that carry over into their HITS though. but that's me
I currently record R&B, now the ubiquitis R&B/Hip Hop
but I also love my Rock, shall I say my funk rock/Lenny,Prince,Sly
the difference is rock takes a more intricate setting up procedure than R&B does.
micing drums - rock
sampled drums - R&B/Hip Hop - saves time, but to play how an actual drummer plays takes talent
actual bassist -- rock
actual bassist, but sometimes a synth -- R&B/Hip Hop
Keyboardist -- rock
Keyboardist -- R&B/Hip Hop
they take nearly the same aspects to make a song good, not all R&B/Hip Hop are samples, such as I do, I play drum & bass, but because I cannot depend on a BAND, I have to do it all myself, this requiring MIDI. I will agree that Hip Hip is repititious to a degree, but sometimes I listen to rock, and all the up front guitar to an outside ear can sound repetitious too, even though it's moving around, the mere fact it's always an upfront lead solo-------wailing --- one would say (if they didnt listen to rock) ----- that sounds the same as that other band.
hence we ALL sound alike.
but hey, it's to each his own, music reaches beyond barriers and what we dont understand, someone else does, it's just the way of the world.
rguagenti---as you stated about the BEATLES, I agree, but I even liking ROCK, dont like the BEATLES, I honestly dont get them, never did, but I respect what they did, but I did listen to the ANTHOLOGY and loved their jam sessions -- (they were inventive and creative) I just didnt hear that carry over into their HITS though. but that's me
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CUSETOWN
New member
?
now we're talking about lyrics?
now we're talking about lyrics?
rushfan33
New member
My opinion is that if you're going to do something worth a damn, it should be done with integrity! If a rock band comes in and wants to record with real instruments, it's will have it's challenges. If a good Rap artist comes in and wants to record songs, it's also gonna have it's challenges. If the two extremes are "so easy", them you're probably not doing it "correctly"! Not to mention, having the attitude that "all I have to do is program some beats", that paying artist is unjustly being charged for your half hearted work. I understand the difference between recording the two different styles and how parts of each session might be easier then the other, but all said and done, nothing with great results should be "easy"!
Rock on!
Rock on!
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69ShadesofRed
New member
All art is useless...
---Oscar Wilde, preface to "The Picture of Dorian Gray"
---Oscar Wilde, preface to "The Picture of Dorian Gray"
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69ShadesofRed
New member
chessrock said:
Nobody's denying that. But so is getting rid of that "oh yeah" in a perfectly good sampled break without messing up the timbre of that snare or editing the feel out of it.
So is having to resample that bass patch in order to keep its character and fix phasing issues that make the needle on the console jump all over the place. An engineer like Omen would probably "fix" it by putting some compressor on and suck the life right out of it, instead of thinking of other ways of controlling the issue.
And as far as lyrics are concerned, I'd rather have people sing about putting bullets in someone's head than actually do it. Other genres can get as graphic or twisted, just listen to Slipknot, Slayer, Danzig, Hocico... Hocico... gotta love industrial music, was just listening to this song in the last verse the guy says that he wants her to be tied up, all confused and wants to chop her up... Cool song!
I don't think they've really chopped anybody up though. The only difference is that in punk, metal or industrial music it's kinda hard to understand what they are singing what with all that screaming and distortion. And come to think of it, why is it OK to see that in movies but not sing about them?'I am not saying hip-hop is the greatest thing in the world. Don't particularly care for rap or hip-hop, my preferred style being industrial. Just keep an open mind, that's all I am saying. The truth is, in any style there are very few greats and a whole lotta garbage.
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chessrock
Banned
69ShadesofRed said:
Exactly, and you never hear stories about that kind of thing, either. Other than Great White accidentally blowing up a bar, you never really hear about any psychopathic rages, nor do many of these guys have much of a violent past . . . nor do they live in worlds where this type of thing is a reality.
Now take rap . . . how many of these guys do you think have killed? How many do you think would kill? How many have had violent pasts? How many have been shot before? How many have been killed? I can think of at least three off the top of my head. And how many have grown up in worlds where violence is the norm?
The problem is that there's a certain element of reality when rap artists address this stuff in their music. And the absurd part is that it's actually glamorized in many ways -- as if somehow it makes these guys badasses if they're packing heat.
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69ShadesofRed
New member
I was saying that specifically the members of Hocico haven't chopped anybody up.
Sure we hear about all kinds of crime. But the problem are not the rap artists per se. The problem is the society that permits the existence no, almost requires the existence of such reality (poverty--leading to drug addiction--leading to poverty--leading to theft--leading to murder). And let's not forget that the whole coke/crack menace was created by the CIA during the Reagan administration to fund covert operations such as Iran Contra, the Nicaraguan coup de ta (however it's spelled), and it was specifically the poor areas such as south central LA that were hit by this... "White Out" is a book that discusses this in depth. Drive by shootings, serial killings (which is almost always a white middle aged male thing for some reason) rape, whatever are an ugly part of our reality. It is the society that breeds such artists. Before blaming them for singing about it, or glorifying it, we should ask why this kind of misery exists in the first place. I don't think anyone is happy to live such a life, it's not a choice, some are actually unlucky enough to be born in such situations. And they sing about what they see. Unfortunatly what they see growing up is not necessarily a nice clean calm neighborhood such as southern Orange County for example.
How the heck did this topic turn from discussing recording/production to social issues?
Sure we hear about all kinds of crime. But the problem are not the rap artists per se. The problem is the society that permits the existence no, almost requires the existence of such reality (poverty--leading to drug addiction--leading to poverty--leading to theft--leading to murder). And let's not forget that the whole coke/crack menace was created by the CIA during the Reagan administration to fund covert operations such as Iran Contra, the Nicaraguan coup de ta (however it's spelled), and it was specifically the poor areas such as south central LA that were hit by this... "White Out" is a book that discusses this in depth. Drive by shootings, serial killings (which is almost always a white middle aged male thing for some reason) rape, whatever are an ugly part of our reality. It is the society that breeds such artists. Before blaming them for singing about it, or glorifying it, we should ask why this kind of misery exists in the first place. I don't think anyone is happy to live such a life, it's not a choice, some are actually unlucky enough to be born in such situations. And they sing about what they see. Unfortunatly what they see growing up is not necessarily a nice clean calm neighborhood such as southern Orange County for example.
How the heck did this topic turn from discussing recording/production to social issues?
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rguagenti
New member
Because art breaks all boundaries. And artists, especially nowadays get involved in social issues, right wrong or indifferent.
I happen to love the music that Don Henley and Bruce Springsteen put out, but their politics out and out suck. Granted the social situations in the rap/hiphop world are a bit more extreme and in-your-face, but it is what it is. It makes my job as a parent a bit more difficult because I have to explain to my 2 teens and 1 preteen that this is not a glamorous world. What parent hasn't said, "You want to be ghetto, let me take you for a ride through the heart of Harlem or South Bronx, or parts of Newark even and I'll show you ghetto." It ain't glamorous. It's much easier to tell them that trashing a hotel room is not right, less social issues to delve into here. This is written off to spoiled and coddled rock stars who let their accountants and lawyers to do the clean up.
Sorry for the long winded BS, but art does not survive in a vacuum.
RG
I happen to love the music that Don Henley and Bruce Springsteen put out, but their politics out and out suck. Granted the social situations in the rap/hiphop world are a bit more extreme and in-your-face, but it is what it is. It makes my job as a parent a bit more difficult because I have to explain to my 2 teens and 1 preteen that this is not a glamorous world. What parent hasn't said, "You want to be ghetto, let me take you for a ride through the heart of Harlem or South Bronx, or parts of Newark even and I'll show you ghetto." It ain't glamorous. It's much easier to tell them that trashing a hotel room is not right, less social issues to delve into here. This is written off to spoiled and coddled rock stars who let their accountants and lawyers to do the clean up.
Sorry for the long winded BS, but art does not survive in a vacuum.
RG
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chessrock
Banned
69Shades,
This is a thread about respect, and I think it's perfectly legit for me to say I don't respect a lot of rap music as an art form . . . therefore I don't necessarily respect the talent that goes in to making it.
I think it's a major shirking of responsibility to blame the Reagan administration or poverty or nicaragua for inner-city violence. The decision to resort to violence in any situation is a personal decision made by individuals. The individual firing that gun is the one making the conscious decision. And it's a decision that I don't respect.
Similarly, I don't respect anyone who glamorizes it in any way through their music or film or whatever.
Compared to inner-city violence and gang-related killings, serial killers represent a very small percentage of the total murder figures. It's our fascination with serial killers that just seems to bring them more to the spotlight. And I hate it when the news makes freakin' celebrities out of these guys. I just want to go punch the news guys in the face every time they talk about Bundee or Gasey, because that's exactly the kind of attention I imagine guys like these saught when they initially set out on their murder sprees.
And if I had a bunch of White, middle-aged rappers coming in here spouting out crap like: "I raped some bitch today," or "I think I'm gonna' molest me some children today," I would tell them to get the fuck out of my studio and seek counseling.
Yet I'm supposed to respect rap artists who rap about taking guns to peoples head and turning them in to Biggie or Two-pac? That's ludicrous. Anyone who depicts that kind of imagery in their lyrics, in my opinion, is pretty sick.
This is a thread about respect, and I think it's perfectly legit for me to say I don't respect a lot of rap music as an art form . . . therefore I don't necessarily respect the talent that goes in to making it.
I think it's a major shirking of responsibility to blame the Reagan administration or poverty or nicaragua for inner-city violence. The decision to resort to violence in any situation is a personal decision made by individuals. The individual firing that gun is the one making the conscious decision. And it's a decision that I don't respect.
Similarly, I don't respect anyone who glamorizes it in any way through their music or film or whatever.
Compared to inner-city violence and gang-related killings, serial killers represent a very small percentage of the total murder figures. It's our fascination with serial killers that just seems to bring them more to the spotlight. And I hate it when the news makes freakin' celebrities out of these guys. I just want to go punch the news guys in the face every time they talk about Bundee or Gasey, because that's exactly the kind of attention I imagine guys like these saught when they initially set out on their murder sprees.
And if I had a bunch of White, middle-aged rappers coming in here spouting out crap like: "I raped some bitch today," or "I think I'm gonna' molest me some children today," I would tell them to get the fuck out of my studio and seek counseling.
Yet I'm supposed to respect rap artists who rap about taking guns to peoples head and turning them in to Biggie or Two-pac? That's ludicrous. Anyone who depicts that kind of imagery in their lyrics, in my opinion, is pretty sick.
13th_Omen
New member
I mentioned this discussion to my buddy the other day who happens to be an avid "raver" and also likes rap/hip-hop. He got all up in my face and started swearing and getting more and more frustrated... over my opinion! Ok.. I guess I am a biggot now because I think recording that kind of music (usually) requires much less efoort and talent.
Generalizing are we? Who might the biggot be? Seriously, where are the statistics for such a comment?
You stated that "at least they are singing about it and not doing it". Ummm.. HELLO! They are doing it!
Anyhow back to the topic.
I was called closed minded a few times... very far cry from the truth. I happen to enjoy certain songs from any and all jenre of music... songs that I concider good.. for example:
"De La Soul: 3 Is the Magic Number"
"Was Not Was: Walk The Dinosaur"
"LL CoolJ: Momma said knock you out"
Billy Joel, Madonna, Garth Brooks, ICP, Pantera, Cat Stevens, ok... I'll stop. Point is.. if I like it I like it.. but I may not like the whole country jenre or rap jenre per se. Make any sense?
How do you know what kind of engineer I am? Does anyone find it odd how defensive some people can get over an opinion?
Generalizing are we? Who might the biggot be? Seriously, where are the statistics for such a comment?
You stated that "at least they are singing about it and not doing it". Ummm.. HELLO! They are doing it!
Anyhow back to the topic.
I was called closed minded a few times... very far cry from the truth. I happen to enjoy certain songs from any and all jenre of music... songs that I concider good.. for example:
"De La Soul: 3 Is the Magic Number"
"Was Not Was: Walk The Dinosaur"
"LL CoolJ: Momma said knock you out"
Billy Joel, Madonna, Garth Brooks, ICP, Pantera, Cat Stevens, ok... I'll stop. Point is.. if I like it I like it.. but I may not like the whole country jenre or rap jenre per se. Make any sense?
How do you know what kind of engineer I am? Does anyone find it odd how defensive some people can get over an opinion?
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69ShadesofRed
New member
OK,
I thought I was not going to post on this topic anymore because I was done expressing my opinions, but it irks me when I get misquoted.
Absolutely generalizing! That's what the "almost always" is about. In case you missed it the words in parenthesis are specifically related to serial killings. For statistics on serial killer profiling just read any major news paper or watch the news, it will come to ya eventually. I never remember calling you a biggot, but I did say your comments were "short sighted" and "narrow minded". Those comments were specifically based on your first post which had nothing to do with lifestyle, but one's musical/engineering ability.
No, my exact words were "I'd rather have people sing about putting bullets in someone's head than actually do it". The same way I'd rather watch a movie where someone cuts some poor sucker's ear off and screams "hello" into it (Reservoir Dogs, Director--Quentin Tarantino) because it's actually funny in a twisted way, than have someone bite someone's ear off in real life (Mike Tyson). I don't condone violence of any sort in real life. But in movies, literature and music it's just entertainment. Now, those that actually kill people, molest teenage girls and such should not be making records or receiving an Academy Award. They should be behind bars for life.
Admittedly that was a cheap shot, and I apologise for it. I don't know what kind of engineer you are, but from your original post I can't help but to surmise that (1) you measure one's music making ability pretty much by how they can mic a drumset, (2) you think that if microphones aren't involved then you can half-ass your way through it because not much thought needs to go into getting the sounds and the mix right, (3) you don't have much experience in electronic music production and programming synths and samplers.
13th_Omen's original post wasn't about content, but about ability. In that context I stand by my words. About content, my take on that is "whatever, it's entertainment", as long as they're not actully doing it. I already expressed my feelings about what should be done to people who commit violent crimes.
[edit: typo]
I thought I was not going to post on this topic anymore because I was done expressing my opinions, but it irks me when I get misquoted.
Absolutely generalizing! That's what the "almost always" is about. In case you missed it the words in parenthesis are specifically related to serial killings. For statistics on serial killer profiling just read any major news paper or watch the news, it will come to ya eventually. I never remember calling you a biggot, but I did say your comments were "short sighted" and "narrow minded". Those comments were specifically based on your first post which had nothing to do with lifestyle, but one's musical/engineering ability.
No, my exact words were "I'd rather have people sing about putting bullets in someone's head than actually do it". The same way I'd rather watch a movie where someone cuts some poor sucker's ear off and screams "hello" into it (Reservoir Dogs, Director--Quentin Tarantino) because it's actually funny in a twisted way, than have someone bite someone's ear off in real life (Mike Tyson). I don't condone violence of any sort in real life. But in movies, literature and music it's just entertainment. Now, those that actually kill people, molest teenage girls and such should not be making records or receiving an Academy Award. They should be behind bars for life.
Admittedly that was a cheap shot, and I apologise for it. I don't know what kind of engineer you are, but from your original post I can't help but to surmise that (1) you measure one's music making ability pretty much by how they can mic a drumset, (2) you think that if microphones aren't involved then you can half-ass your way through it because not much thought needs to go into getting the sounds and the mix right, (3) you don't have much experience in electronic music production and programming synths and samplers.
13th_Omen's original post wasn't about content, but about ability. In that context I stand by my words. About content, my take on that is "whatever, it's entertainment", as long as they're not actully doing it. I already expressed my feelings about what should be done to people who commit violent crimes.
[edit: typo]
13th_Omen
New member
It's cool dude! Your right, I really don't have much experience with samples and synths, I think they are cheating. Why can't people use real drums for rap/hip-hop? I remember hearing an unplugged version of "Momma said knock you out" and it was really cool! As far as the serial killer thing.. who cares. I guess it all boils down to this. I give credit where credit is due. I'm not gonna say all rappers are no-talent murders, but I can honestly say that I don't feel I should be obligated to respect something I haven't heard. In short: "I'm guilty until proven innocent!"
-Peace
-Peace
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BillyFurnett
New member
Maybe I'm wrong here 13th, but it sounded (In your initial post) like you AND the other guy (Or his friend) all having just then met may have alienated one another while trying to establish musical identities... If that is in fact the case, then it's a shame for all involved, 'cus technique in ANY given genre does not the PERSON make. You can't buy "Rap" a drink or "Rock" a beer,
but you CAN celebrate the differences and benifit from the common ground.
(Maybe you'll cross paths with him again and there'll be a second chance for everyone to bring something to the table.)
but you CAN celebrate the differences and benifit from the common ground.
(Maybe you'll cross paths with him again and there'll be a second chance for everyone to bring something to the table.)
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MaxB
New member
Ah ah ah
You can do Hippo Poppo with Amiga Protracker.
There's no need for a whole studio.
Jeskola Buzz may work too.
I never been able to understand hip hop. Every song seems always the same song.
Black culture give us the best music and the best source of ispiration in the past. I'm talking about Jazz, Blues, R&B, Rock...
But Rap/Hippo Poppo...
MaxB (yes, I'm ready to be crucified )
You can do Hippo Poppo with Amiga Protracker.
There's no need for a whole studio.
Jeskola Buzz may work too.
I never been able to understand hip hop. Every song seems always the same song.
Black culture give us the best music and the best source of ispiration in the past. I'm talking about Jazz, Blues, R&B, Rock...
But Rap/Hippo Poppo...
MaxB (yes, I'm ready to be crucified
)
ChristopherM
New member
Is this still going on?
Can't we all just put down our flaming crosses and pointy hats and get along?
A good many rappers and hiphop artists are not "gangsta."
Just like not all rock-and-roll personalities commit murder (Sid Vicious, Phil Spectre), bite the heads off animals (Ozzy), beat the crap out of their wife (Ozzy again, Scott Weiland, Tommy Lee), carry around drugs and unregistered weapons (David Crosby, John Popper), assault teens (Keith Richards, Insane Clown Posse), cause riots in Montreal (Axl Rose), drunkenly wave a gun around Elvis' house (Jerry Lee Lewis), drive recklessly (Scott Stapp), drunkenly commit vehicular homicide (Keith Moon), or lead police on a high speed chase (James Brown).
Rock and roll has a long history of irresponsible and violent behavior. That doesn't mean we're ALL bad!
Can't we all just put down our flaming crosses and pointy hats and get along?
A good many rappers and hiphop artists are not "gangsta."
Just like not all rock-and-roll personalities commit murder (Sid Vicious, Phil Spectre), bite the heads off animals (Ozzy), beat the crap out of their wife (Ozzy again, Scott Weiland, Tommy Lee), carry around drugs and unregistered weapons (David Crosby, John Popper), assault teens (Keith Richards, Insane Clown Posse), cause riots in Montreal (Axl Rose), drunkenly wave a gun around Elvis' house (Jerry Lee Lewis), drive recklessly (Scott Stapp), drunkenly commit vehicular homicide (Keith Moon), or lead police on a high speed chase (James Brown).
Rock and roll has a long history of irresponsible and violent behavior. That doesn't mean we're ALL bad!
VSpaceBoy
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...word
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grinder
New member
ChristopherM said:Is this still going on?
Can't we all just put down our flaming crosses and pointy hats and get along?
A good many rappers and hiphop artists are not "gangsta."
Just like not all rock-and-roll personalities commit murder (Sid Vicious, Phil Spectre), bite the heads off animals (Ozzy), beat the crap out of their wife (Ozzy again, Scott Weiland, Tommy Lee), carry around drugs and unregistered weapons (David Crosby, John Popper), assault teens (Keith Richards, Insane Clown Posse), cause riots in Montreal (Axl Rose), drunkenly wave a gun around Elvis' house (Jerry Lee Lewis), drive recklessly (Scott Stapp), drunkenly commit vehicular homicide (Keith Moon), or lead police on a high speed chase (James Brown).
Rock and roll has a long history of irresponsible and violent behavior. That doesn't mean we're ALL bad!
True but, is Insane Clown Posse rock and roll?
ChristopherM
New member
grinder said:
Is Insane Clown Posse music?
...OK...let's not start up again!