No, it’s not all in the fingers.

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Now that I think about this a little more, it is going more towards equipment than it used to be. Now that a lot of mainstream stuff is edited to death, quantized and sent through a amp sim, like an Axe FX or Kemper, much of the performance is washed away and many people end up using the same couple presets that everyone else uses in the genre.

In the 70's, you essentially played a Strat or a Les Paul into a Marshall, yet Hendrix didn't sound like Blackmore and Ace Frehley didn't sound like Peter Frampton.

No, it isn't all in the fingers, but much of what people tend to be chasing is the impression of the sound, not the actual sound itself. That impression has more to do with the performance and the context that it lives in (the mix)
 
Most people can play chords A E D just fine. They need the equipment recipe for the song they're listening to, so it sounds the same.

Personally, I am a Jedi. Though the council has not yet granted me the rank of Master.
 
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Yes - but how many Strat players use a Marshall and a DS2 and don't sound like that? I think paint is quite like kit - we have all kinds of shades, types, application and lighting - it all makes a difference.
 
Fretboard/gameboard , pickups, string gauge, body woods, wiring, components, levels at each stage, preamp, tube type, Fx rack, pedals, power amp, speaker, cabinet, recording microphone, IR loader, post things I cannot think of right now...

Yeah, there are enough variables for personalization.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
That is not the same.

One needs to try to emulate the other at least for sake of comparison.
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Precisely the point, the equipment was exactly the same, it was the "fingers" and the attached brain that completes the sound. Trying to emulate the style of playing IS the fingers.

Obviously you can't make a Les paul with humbuckers and a 24.5" scale into a Marshall plexi sound like a Strat into a Twin JUST by playing it differently, but in the end, the style of play and technique is a huge part of the overall sound.

Personally, I think all this dream of getting the "tone" of a particular song, or artist, is pointless, especially if its from an old record. While you might know that Beano was a 59 LP into a Bluesbreaker, you don't know all the stuff that happened after the sound left the speaker cab.
 
TalismanRich said:
Personally, I think all this dream of getting the "tone" of a particular song, or artist, is pointless, especially if its from an old record.
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And I think if you came out with a sound recipe song book, you would be a millionaire in the Bahamas sipping pina coladas on a 50 ft yacht with a harem of babes.

It would be the HItchhikers Guide to the Galaxy for Home Recording.
 
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LazerBeakShiek said:
And I think if you came out with a sound recipe song book, you would be a millionaire in the Bahamas sipping pina coladas on a 50 ft yacht with a harem of babes.

It would be the HItchhikers Guide to the Galaxy for Home Recording.
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At least until enough people tried the recipes and failed to get the sound they were after, because there is more to it than that.
 
What are you talking about? Than what?

If a piece is written, you can only play it so close.
 
There is more to it than what guitar into what pedal into what amp, even if the settings are the same, context makes a lot of difference.
 
You know what a player piano is , correct?

The piano is the gear that makes the sound.

The sheet of paper with holes is the performance.

Agree?
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
You know what a player piano is , correct?

The piano is the gear that makes the sound.

The sheet of paper with holes is the performance.

Agree?
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Yes but that depends on how intricate the information is within that sheet music. It's like MIDI. Assuming the instrument you're playing is capable of handling the data, a MIDI performance can sound indistinguishable from a live instrument performance. Or, if you want it to, it can be completely quantized and normalized so that it's completely robotic.

In the latter, the MIDI instrument is the only thing providing the variation. In the former, the performer is providing incredible variation.

While "it's all in the fingers" is a lazy and inaccurate reply, I think it's insane to say that fingers are only 5% of someone's sound.

I mean, it's all subjective, of course. But the simple truth is that I could plug into EVH's rig, try to play his riffs, and still probably not sound like him at all. Now, it's true that I'm not all that well versed in EVH's style. If it were someone I'm more familiar with, like Robben Ford, for example, I could probably get closer to his sound through his gear. But I still think it would be night and day when I handed it back off to Robben.

The thing is that it's impossible to separate "the fingers" from style and feel, because they're always connected. One of the reasons that EVH still sounds like him through different rigs is because he's playing things he likes to play and things he's known for. The tone itself could be vastly different, really, but the player is recognizable. Robben's tone with the Fender Esprit (humbuckers) through his Dumble is quite different than when he plays a Tele through a Deluxe, but it's still clearly Robben. And if that's not "the fingers," then what is it?
 
famous beagle said:
.

In the latter, the MIDI instrument is the only thing providing the variation. In the former, the performer is providing incredible variation.
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........they are the same. With the same potential for variation. It might even be advantage MIDI.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
I asked you first. You didn't identify anything in that I could decipher.
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You said:
"The piano is the gear that makes the sound.
The sheet of paper with holes is the performance."

We're saying that's an incomplete picture. The sheet of paper is A performance. But it's entirely dependent on the programmer -- i.e., the performer. Two different programmers/performers and going to make the piano sound different, even if the piece of music is the same.
 
famous beagle said:
Yes but that depends on how intricate the information is within that sheet music. It's like MIDI. Assuming the instrument you're playing is capable of handling the data, a MIDI performance can sound indistinguishable from a live instrument performance. Or, if you want it to, it can be completely quantized and normalized so that it's completely robotic.

In the latter, the MIDI instrument is the only thing providing the variation. In the former, the performer is providing incredible variation.

While "it's all in the fingers" is a lazy and inaccurate reply, I think it's insane to say that fingers are only 5% of someone's sound.

I mean, it's all subjective, of course. But the simple truth is that I could plug into EVH's rig, try to play his riffs, and still probably not sound like him at all. Now, it's true that I'm not all that well versed in EVH's style. If it were someone I'm more familiar with, like Robben Ford, for example, I could probably get closer to his sound through his gear. But I still think it would be night and day when I handed it back off to Robben.

The thing is that it's impossible to separate "the fingers" from style and feel, because they're always connected. One of the reasons that EVH still sounds like him through different rigs is because he's playing things he likes to play and things he's known for. The tone itself could be vastly different, really, but the player is recognizable. Robben's tone with the Fender Esprit (humbuckers) through his Dumble is quite different than when he plays a Tele through a Deluxe, but it's still clearly Robben. And if that's not "the fingers," then what is it?
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I’m not saying it’s 5% of the sound. I’m saying it’s 5% of the tone.
 
rob aylestone said:
Yes - but how many Strat players use a Marshall and a DS2 and don't sound like that? I think paint is quite like kit - we have all kinds of shades, types, application and lighting - it all makes a difference.
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If they don’t sound like that, their style is different, but the tone will be the same.
 
It sounds like you are romanticizing the infinity of it.

'he can play an A chord better than she can' ...haha

If two skilled musicians are playing a peice to sound identical, it will sound the same.
 
So instead of in the fingers if i said that "technique" has a big effect on tone who would disagree and why. Not withstanding massively overdriven detuned, drop tuned, or shredding, i mean. Let's face it , there is a lot less tone difference in some styles no matter what technique one is playing.
 
No this still isnt right. Playing a A chord is an excellent example. Let’s say a barre A, 5th fret in the E pattern. It is a two handed process and I can think of at least five right hand ways of playing it, probably more, and the same with the left. It’s also virtually impossible to write this down, so if you are trying to sound like somebody else you’d have to video them doing it and try to copy that. I’ve always been a dep musician and you turn up, they give you the pa, you play it and you go home. You always get told, loved how you played X or why did you play Z? You played the dots. The person you were deputising for played the same notes differently. I’m old, so if you see the next song says “play as Status Quo” and it’s always Rockin All Over The World - you quickly have to find the right pedal button stamp on it and try to sound like Quo. A long time back my band supported Quo and I got to try to play rick parfitt’s tele. High action mega string gauge. His guitar tech laughed. I certainly sounded 100% NOT like him. Not in a million years. His guitar. His amps, even his pick. Not his sound, remotely, and Quo get the piss taken for being three chord wonders!
 
Talking about gear sound.

Use yourself as an example. Your equipment. Something where you know the hardware. Not watching a show.

The sound of the equipment CAN be characterized only with a singe chord. Style has nothing to do with it.
 
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