Nirvana's Nevermind

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blake Long
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rhythmgtr5 said:


I'm pretty sure that kurt wouldn't want something like that to happen on his record. He wouldn't have allowed vig to sample the guitar like that.
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Being that they were new talent, Kurt probably didn't have a hell uv alot of say on the final product.... The label probably wanted something slick....


Keep in mind, I didn't say they sampled... I just said, it is very possible that they did.
 
Great thread guys.

Interestingly, as an aside which does relate to this thread, I recently purchased the new "Garbage" album thinking to myself - hey, Butch Vig plays in "Garbage" - it's GOTTA be good! He made "Nevermind".

But woe betide anyone who buys that album. Disregarding the musical merit of the songs, and disregarding the the fact that Shirley Manson has a very, VERY limited vocal range... man... that album is the schlockest sounding bit of bland I've heard in yonks! And do you know why?

Over mastered... that's right - repeat after me... over mastered. It's actually possible to do it, and on "Beautiful Garbage" Butch Vig has managed to do it.

From beginning to end, the album itself must have a grand total of dynamic range of 15db from it's loudest to softest part. Oh, it's loud - for sure it's loud on your CD, but it's just so epicly OVER SQUASHED!

Butch! Where have you gone wrong?

Anyways, back to "Nevermind" - yes, indeed it remains a very impressive album doesn't it?

I had a listen to it again the other night as a reference point because I was working on a tune which was quite "Cobain" like in it's playing - and here's what I noticed on my reference speakers.

Very loud kicks. Very loud toms. Kurt Cobain made the band - obviously, but Dave Grohl carried it. He is the king of monster flams is Dave - and his kit has a monster well balanced sound. Dave has since said that John Bonham was his epiphony - and on "Nevermind" you can see what he means.

The loudness of Dave Grohl's kick in particular allowed Krist Novoselic's bass playing to sound extremely menacing. And as we all know, the drum and bass package are the engine room in any great band - again consider John Paul Jones and John Bonham.

Dave has since said that on "SLTS" he and Krist laid the rythm track down in just three takes. Very impressive stuff. They did a lot of rehearsal apparently prior to the album to get their arrangements super duper tight and it shows.

I can't comment on the aspect of triggered samples - it's not a conversation I've ever heard mentioned before and I must say I'm quite a big Dave Grohl fan (see my handle)!

Other than that though, the album itself was actually pretty sparse. In most respects the boys followed The Police's model - namely, exquisite musicianship played really tight and on the money, and the overlapping 'harmonics' of good playing are really what we're hearing.

Kurt's vocals were compressed at medium levels to allow his soft-loud technique to be properly balanced, but there was little verb or other artifacts anywhere thru the album.

More than anything else, it was just really good playing allied with a relatively sparse mix which was then mastered REALLY well.

A killer combination which all young musos should take note of methinks.
 
I read somewhere that originally, on the song SLTS, that prechorus, where Kurt says "How low, How low, How low.....", occured only once in the song originally, and it was a bridge near the end of the song, and in the editing, mixing stage, the song was re-arranged, so as to use it as a prechorus before each chorus... (via splicing it throughout the song the old fashion way, with a razor blade and tape)

So as legend tells it, the song originally jumped into the choruses straight from the verses....



I can't remember where I read this, but it was fairly recently... If anyone knows, please refresh my memory..
 
BOO BOO FOO>

It's funny you mention the drum mix, cause I went for that exact, "loud bass drum" sound in one of my songs... The mix was totally inspired by The "Nevermind" sound...

It's in My song called "Nothing to hide"... Just after the first verse, in the prechorus, where Im singing "Take a pill to hide the pain"....etc.....

Let me know if im sort of close to "the" sound... Epecially the bass drum, cymbals, and bass...

http://www.voxvendor.com/mp3.htm
 
Yep Vox, pretty bloody close. Well done my friend.

Just one thing to note however, well, actually two, in regards to Dave's playing. Dave's drumming is way, way, WAY more responsible for Nirvana's sound than most people give credit for (especially Courtney Love!).

In much the same way that Keith Moon shaped The Who's sound, and John Bonham shaped Led Zeppelin's sound, Dave Grohl certainly shaped Nirvana's sound - and he has two trademarks which you might care to go back to your song "Nothing To Hide" and dial in if you can.

Firstly, he's a huge fan of very prescient 'ride' cymbals. If you look at footage of D.G. in concert he often has his head down with arms out wide just doing ride cymbal work and crashing the snare and toms in between off beats. He's very famous for his 18" ride running precisely on the 4/4 beat.

His other famous trademark, one which I would love to hear you employ in your tune, is his 'stuttering' kick pedal - Dave has an eerie ability to factor in 8ths with his kick and that's what made Krist sound like such a good bass player - it was Dave's stuttering kick work - and the only drummer I can think of who does it better is John Bonham actually.

Other than that, the levels were great. Really a great mix to be sure. I personally prefer my guitar tones in the lower half of the mid range where as yours are in the upper halfs but that's just taste and amp choice etc etc.

I'm a '67 Vox AC30 and '65 Fender Blackface Twin man you see.
 
Due to this thread I started listening to Nevermind again.

VoxVendor

I think you're right concerning the guitars. I also hear a slight delay on the doubled guitars.
 
Yeah, especially listen to Teen Spirit... I even think they looped the whole song, including the intro.... (in the mastering stage)..

I think it's fantastic, that music can be raw, yet well produced, and well presented.... Nevermind is a nice mix of that.

In my opinion, on "In utero", the songwriting quality went up, and the recording quality went down.....

What do you think Brett?
 
I hate to burst everyones bubble, but Kurt and the rest of the band didn't even like how clean the album sounded. They wanted it to sound rough, wich makes sense to me - clean precise recordings and dirty music dont mix
 
BrettB said:
There is a guy in my neighbourhoud who keeps telling everybody that all the guitars on Nevermind are samples to.
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I would hope that if the guitar playing were samples, the playing would have been better than it was.

Let me see if I can find that out-of-tune Acid loop I had lying around here.......
 
tonejunkee said:
I hate to burst everyones bubble, but Kurt and the rest of the band didn't even like how clean the album sounded. They wanted it to sound rough, wich makes sense to me - clean precise recordings and dirty music dont mix
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Your not bursting anyones bubbles... I think we've all maintained the fact that the "polishing" was against Kurt and the bands wishes throughout this thread.
 
"polishing" of records has been a great hook for me into listening great bands. Like The Ramones: I started listening them thru "Pleasant Dreams", and if it wasn't for that record I wouldn't listen to them.
Then I found that it was one of the albums that The Ramones hated the most. I was sad that I didn't synchronize with their ideas, but what the heck, that record is always a great listen. The same with Nevermind.
 
One of the most important items mentioned wasn't commented on, so I have to point it out: The Rat. The Rat is also one of David Gilmour's fave pedals, so for those of us looking for tone mastery, that's a pretty good indicator.

I bought my very own Rat a couple of years ago, and my tone improved exponentially. If I can ever get this disc finished, I'll show ya...

Also, I too find it regrettable when a band hates something they've done that I think is fabulous.

U2's "Rattle & Hum", for instance. That movie & soundtrack was the thing that sold me on them, & they've done nothing but criticize it since.

Pink Floyd's "The Final Cut". Roger Waters still likes it, but the rest of the band can't stand the thing. It's my favorite Floyd album, and not least because of Gilmour's work on it. I think they're remembering the times rather than the record.

I hated the vast majority of Seattle's output in the early 90's, but "Nevermind" is definitely an exception, along with Pearl Jam's "Vs". And actually, my love of those albums has a lot to do with the drumming. Dave Grohl & Dave Abbruzzese fucking rock, and that's all I have to say about that.
 
i always thought the ramones would've hated one of their 80's albums. or End Of The Century. Phil Spector may be a great producer, but he turned a good Ramones album into sonic shit. (in my opinion of course)
 
Vox

I agree with you on the in utero comments, although it is not a popular point of view. I think maybe we should say: songs went up, but producing, and not only recording went down. When I listen to In Utero: I can't help thinking about some songs: this could have been better. The drums sound lots better on Nevermind I think, and also some guitar arrangments could have been better, although I also like that album.

And I know many talk about the polishing, but I don't like 'polished rock' either, but I don't think Nevermind is that polished, or not in the negative sence of the word. It still sounds raw and in your face to me, and it just arranged to sound as good as possible. Now blink 182, that bullshit sounds polished!
 
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