Newbies,listen up!

[pandamonk]

When I originally put the rockwool in,I pushed it all the way back into the cavity.I set up my bass rig and did a little test run.I ended up moving all of
it as far foward in the cavity as it would go,and it seemed a lot better to my ears.The small air gap between it and the drywall made a lot of difference.
As far as Rick goes,I have no probs with him.Seems to be informed enough.

Whereas if you put this rockwool in a corner, there would be a greater airgap behind making an even bigger difference. Even moreso if you doubled up the rockwool. And guess what, this would be a bass trap. I'm sure you probably knew that, hah

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

An acoustic guitar(and overs) with vox recorded in my live room:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/growlinclarencebow/singles
song title is out west blues.
Rest of the shit on the page really is not deserving of a listen.Recorded it
at my rehearsal studio.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Rick,all bullshit aside,

Cool.

I dont think that inspector had a good understanding

Which inspector, your friend or the one I mentioned?

I cant speak for all locals,but in my area this is no problem.

What's no problem? No fireblocking? Cause what you described below implies you have NO fireblocking, but without seeing a section, I don't know for sure. But I can guess, see below.

Same for
the floating room.The space in between is fire blocked by the spaces it
decouples.

Excuse me? Without seeing a section at each of the double walls I wouldn't know what you are talking about. If the airgap is enclosed by drywall on the studio leaf, and the garage exterior shiething , that implies two things. I understand your "inside out" studio wall construction. And you say this is in a garage..which implys an unshiethed interior framing, which is probably fireblocked but useless unless drywalled. You have an airgap between the exterior shiething and the drywall on your studio wall, and this airgap is open to the space above your studio, no? This means, there is nothing in the airgap to keep fire from spreading to an attic space, unseen, should a fire start within. However, if your garage was drywalled in the first place, then you must have a three leaf system , which for all intents an purposes creates a drywalled plenum..with no firestop.


And actually, thanks for the description. You have now become one of the people here that you just called full of shit.

But thanks for the final vote of confidence. I appreciate it. Good luck getting a pool table.
fitZ

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Cool.
Which inspector, your friend or the one I mentioned?

What's no problem? No fireblocking? Cause what you described below implies you have NO fireblocking, but without seeing a section, I don't know for sure. But I can guess, see below.



Excuse me? Without seeing a section at each of the double walls I wouldn't know what you are talking about. If the airgap is enclosed by drywall on the studio leaf, and the garage exterior shiething , that implies two things. I understand your "inside out" studio wall construction. And you say this is in a garage..which implys an unshiethed interior framing, which is probably fireblocked but useless unless drywalled. You have an airgap between the exterior shiething and the drywall on your studio wall, and this airgap is open to the space above your studio, no? This means, there is nothing in the airgap to keep fire from spreading to an attic space, unseen, should a fire start within. However, if your garage was drywalled in the first place, then you must have a three leaf system , which for all intents an purposes creates a drywalled plenum..with no firestop.


And actually, thanks for the description. You have now become one of the people here that you just called full of shit.

But thanks for the final vote of confidence. I appreciate it. Good luck getting a pool table.
fitZ

Rick,I appreciate you respondinding in a civil tone.I'll do the same from now on.
As far as my rooms go ,yes I did sheetrock the entire garage(walls and ceilings)before building my floating room.I really dont see how an air gap
could be construed as being a plenum,unless that space was used for the purpose of return air.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

ould be construed as being a plenum,unless that space was used for the purpose of return a

I didn't mean it was an actual plenum. That was tongue in cheek for a "fire pathway". But thats neither here nor there. Having a friend for a building inspector must help though.
fitZ

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

I didn't mean it was an actual plenum. That was tongue in cheek for a "fire pathway". But thats neither here nor there. Having a friend for a building inspector must help though.
fitZ

To be honest,he wouldnt allow me to get away with a code violation.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

To be honest,he wouldnt allow me to get away with a code violation.

Chances are you will never have a fire there anyway. And if you did, a firewall as they are called would not help save your home. I have only read of them spec'd for additions to existing structures(between extg. and new), btw, not renovations of existing structure. Anyway, you are where I hope to be in another 2 months...done with the shit, equipment moved in, and recording again. Salute!

 

[Rod Gervais]

The top plate of the framing and the drywall provide fire blocking for the outer room.Same for the floating room.The space in between is fire blocked by the spaces it decouples.

Sheppard,

Explain to me the method of obtaining the fireblocking I don't have a clear picture from your post.

When you put a room within a room - the problem areas are those at the top of the walls - and at the corners of the walls.

The inner walls are fine - because you're right - the top plates stop the fire from spreading.

But in between the inner and outer walls there is an air space - it runs up the face of the walls - and then runs over the inner room - in between the floor joist above - so that you have free air movement all around the room.

How did you stop that from happening - because that is the reason for fire blocking - to stop your structure from acting link a chimney.

Sincerely,

Rod

 

[conan]

I returned after a long absence to find this bizarre bit of trolling and I'd like to throw in my 2c so nobody gets put off using an excellent resource.

If anything, the big difference with this forum and others that made me pay attention was seeing all of the actual, real-world projects that were in progress or already built. There are a million sites on the web making dubiously vague statements about floating rooms, isolation channels and such with a notable scarcity of real-world examples or photographs.

I can say with good confidence that without this forum my first studio project would have turned out 1/10th as well as it actually did, and that's saying something for an internet forum. Several studios later, I've now started helping others with their own projects (they aren't many people who understand sound isolation in Taiwan). I can't tell you how great it feels now to be in my early 20s with some pretty serious solo building projects under my belt and I doubt I would have got this far without the help of Rick Fitzpatrick and Rod Gervais in particular.

It's great to see they are still here and still giving up their time for free to help fellow enthusiasts.

 

[ridgeback]

I can say with good confidence that without this forum my first studio project would have turned out 1/10th as well as it actually did, and that's saying something for an internet forum. Several studios later, I've now started helping others with their own projects (they aren't many people who understand sound isolation in Taiwan). I can't tell you how great it feels now to be in my early 20s with some pretty serious solo building projects under my belt and I doubt I would have got this far without the help of Rick Fitzpatrick and Rod Gervais in particular.

It's great to see they are still here and still giving up their time for free to help fellow enthusiasts.

Couldn't agree more! I really don't understand where this thread was going in the first place but as far as the advice from real world experiences, this is it. I'm 39 and just completing my first project studio. With Rick, Rod, Knightfly and some others guidance it turning out better than I ever thought it could. The advice DIDN'T COST ME A DIME mister Shep. The materials however did. Great, you scored alot of building materials and built for cheap. Some people don't have access to that so they have to purchase materials. Some went to fuller extents than others. Nobody sold me anything. Bottom line, it does make a difference and you know it. Thanks guys!

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Sheppard,

Explain to me the method of obtaining the fireblocking I don't have a clear picture from your post.

When you put a room within a room - the problem areas are those at the top of the walls - and at the corners of the walls.

The inner walls are fine - because you're right - the top plates stop the fire from spreading.

But in between the inner and outer walls there is an air space - it runs up the face of the walls - and then runs over the inner room - in between the floor joist above - so that you have free air movement all around the room.

How did you stop that from happening - because that is the reason for fire blocking - to stop your structure from acting link a chimney.

Sincerely,

Rod

Rod,my inner room is inside out,as I said.Because of the way I framed it,the
inside of this room is completetly fire blocked.The outer side of this room is
also fire blocked because of the method I used to put everything together.
My outer room is completely sheet rocked.(walls and ceilings)There are
no exposed joist or framing in the air gap,with the exception of the floor,and
that is within code.
If anyone knows of some decent freeware,I will try to draw up what I did.I
was not very dilligent with the picture taking process.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

I returned after a long absence to find this bizarre bit of trolling and I'd like to throw in my 2c so nobody gets put off using an excellent resource.

If anything, the big difference with this forum and others that made me pay attention was seeing all of the actual, real-world projects that were in progress or already built. There are a million sites on the web making dubiously vague statements about floating rooms, isolation channels and such with a notable scarcity of real-world examples or photographs.

I can say with good confidence that without this forum my first studio project would have turned out 1/10th as well as it actually did, and that's saying something for an internet forum. Several studios later, I've now started helping others with their own projects (they aren't many people who understand sound isolation in Taiwan). I can't tell you how great it feels now to be in my early 20s with some pretty serious solo building projects under my belt and I doubt I would have got this far without the help of Rick Fitzpatrick and Rod Gervais in particular.

It's great to see they are still here and still giving up their time for free to help fellow enthusiasts.

Conan,(love your show BTW)i do realize that I pissed off quite a few folks with this post.You will just have to trust me when I tell you that it certainly
was not aimed at anyone with good intentions.I apologize for being all
inclusive with some of my comments.
There are some very easy ways to do things,that often get over complicated
by people that enjoy sounding important.A person that knows how to scrounge,can build a studio a lot cheaper than a person that shops at home
depot.

 

[Rod Gervais]

If anyone knows of some decent freeware,I will try to draw up what I did.I
was not very dilligent with the picture taking process.

Sheppard,

check this site out and pick one - Turbocad is pretty easy to use.

http://freeware.intrastar.net/cadsoftware.htm

Rod

 

[c7sus]

Well,I went non union on my shit Graig.

I built it by myself.

Read the post again. The county assessed it at $12,000, which is what they claim it would have cost to have it built by a contractor.

I spent more than $800 on tools for that project.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

I built it by myself.

Read the post again. The county assessed it at $12,000, which is what they claim it would have cost to have it built by a contractor.

I spent more than $800 on tools for that project.

I was just razzing ya man.I'm sure you did a great job of it.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

A person that knows how to scrounge,can build a studio a lot cheaper than a person that shops at home

Sheppard, if ANYBODY is a scrounger, its me. Except for my gear, everything in my studio, which ain't much , was made from stuff I found or scrounged. The problem is, the main stuff for isolation construction such as lumber, drywall, insulation, caulking, green glue etc is almost impossible to find in any quantity that would make a difference. And then you have treatment. Has ANYONE here ever found enough of the correct products such as rigid fiberglass, to construct ONE bass trap? I doubt it. Thats the real problem with your statement. Hell, because of lack of resources, I finally gave up on the isolation thing. And to treat my small space correctly, would take almost $1k in treatment materials. Which for me is out of the question considering my circumstances. Thats why my space has remained exactly what it is. A bedroom sized space with niether isolation nor treatment.

Personally, from what I've learned since joining here, is MOST people NEED some isolation and every small room requires an abundance of treatment. Niether of which can be built from SCROUNGED materials for the most part. Unless of course you have years to collect it. Frankly, it takes a fair budget to modify even an existing small space into one that performs as it should. You said it yourself...it only cost you $800.....well, I hardly call that "scrounging". Its taken me a year just to save enough for HALF my treatment.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

A person that knows how to scrounge,can build a studio a lot cheaper than a person that shops at home
depot.

Amen. My studio is so Home Depot I'm thinking of painting it orange and white
I'm still not too bad since I am building it myself, but man I could have saved a lot of $$ by looking around for unwanted items elsewhere. I budgeted $5,000 and should come in considerably lower than that, but could've done it a lot cheaper. My consolation being that if I would've sub-contracted it out it would've cost around $17K, and if I would've hired a GC for turnkey construction probably around $22,500. Damn South Florida construction prices.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

but man I could have saved a lot of $$ by looking around for unwanted items elsewhere.

Exactly what "unwanted" items are you refering to Seeker? Do people frequently throw away vast quantities of materials in your area? At least enough to build YOUR studio? Like....ahem...CONCRETE, CONCRETE BLOCK, enough studs and drywall? Roofing framing/shiething/weatherproofing...how bout insulation???? IF so, I'm moving there!!! Far be it from me to discourage anyone from trying to build a studio by scrounging...but I don't believe it. Unless you have vast quantities of time to scour your vicinity, and an area to store it till you have enough to actually do something with it. I've YET to even come across ONE FULL SHEET of drywall that someone simply throws away. Let alone enough concrete to pour a slab as you have done.

 

[conan]

Sheppard, if ANYBODY is a scrounger, its me. Except for my gear, everything in my studio, which ain't much , was made from stuff I found or scrounged. The problem is, the main stuff for isolation construction such as lumber, drywall, insulation, caulking, green glue etc is almost impossible to find in any quantity that would make a difference. And then you have treatment. Has ANYONE here ever found enough of the correct products such as rigid fiberglass, to construct ONE bass trap? I doubt it. Thats the real problem with your statement. Hell, because of lack of resources, I finally gave up on the isolation thing. And to treat my small space correctly, would take almost $1k in treatment materials. Which for me is out of the question considering my circumstances. Thats why my space has remained exactly what it is. A bedroom sized space with niether isolation nor treatment.

Personally, from what I've learned since joining here, is MOST people NEED some isolation and every small room requires an abundance of treatment. Niether of which can be built from SCROUNGED materials for the most part. Unless of course you have years to collect it. Frankly, it takes a fair budget to modify even an existing small space into one that performs as it should. You said it yourself...it only cost you $800.....well, I hardly call that "scrounging". Its taken me a year just to save enough for HALF my treatment.

Just as an aside on this point.. you may remember the first studio I built with the help of you guys. I had budgeted a fair bit for treatment but when the isolation was done I discovered the sound was already more than acceptable for what I needed. While it's worth budgeting for treatment you won't necessarily need it, especially in a small project studio.

And on scrounging.. that first studio cost a fair few k for a SMALL space, the most expensive stuff being tools, drywall, neoprene, fire rated caulk and high quality pinewood for the custom furniture. I since moved to Taiwan and have a much bigger project on the go but I totally lucked out.. my neighbour turned up with a stash of free lumber that is absolutely perfect for what I need along with a mountain of EDPM/neoprene rubber (now THAT'S lucky!). A nearby company recently went bankrupt so my drywall is almost free. I'm getting two free split A/C units from a friend, I have all the electrical cabling, sockets etc. leftover from an earlier project and obviously I don't need any tools this time. This time I'm actually getting some help with the labour too because I agreed to help a friend with his studio and share the work. So all in all I will have a studio five times bigger than the first one for about 1/4 the price.

I love scrounging but it's all down to luck.. anyone who wants a small but serious, professional studio that they are going to enjoy working in with a good level of isolation is looking at US$2k-4k minimum and that's INCLUDING a realistic amount of scrounging and invention. You add up your lumber, drywall etc. and think.. hey, not bad. And by the time you've shelled out for the little things like screws, cable, light fittings etc. you've been nickled and dimed to death for another US$1k+.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Sheppard, if ANYBODY is a scrounger, its me. Except for my gear, everything in my studio, which ain't much , was made from stuff I found or scrounged. The problem is, the main stuff for isolation construction such as lumber, drywall, insulation, caulking, green glue etc is almost impossible to find in any quantity that would make a difference. And then you have treatment. Has ANYONE here ever found enough of the correct products such as rigid fiberglass, to construct ONE bass trap? I doubt it. Thats the real problem with your statement. Hell, because of lack of resources, I finally gave up on the isolation thing. And to treat my small space correctly, would take almost $1k in treatment materials. Which for me is out of the question considering my circumstances. Thats why my space has remained exactly what it is. A bedroom sized space with niether isolation nor treatment.

Personally, from what I've learned since joining here, is MOST people NEED some isolation and every small room requires an abundance of treatment. Niether of which can be built from SCROUNGED materials for the most part. Unless of course you have years to collect it. Frankly, it takes a fair budget to modify even an existing small space into one that performs as it should. You said it yourself...it only cost you $800.....well, I hardly call that "scrounging". Its taken me a year just to save enough for HALF my treatment.

Rick,I never said anything about pouring a slab.There is more than one way to skin a cat.Everything used to float my floor cost me zero.Take a look at the pics.