Newbie querstion.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sage97
  • Start date Start date
S

Sage97

New member
Newbie question.

Lost of great info in this forum!! Here's my first post.

I'm ready to upgrade my mics for acoustic guitar recording. I play fingerpicking to light strumming using Taylor guitars. Aside form vocals and a drum machine, no other instruments will be added to the mix. I plug everything to an AKAI DPS 16 through an RNP and RNC.

I've narrowed my search to AT4041 vs. SP C4?

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
I know it really doesn't help, but why not try them both... Then you can decide what YOU think sounds best, and not what others think.

Hopefully, someone who actually owns BOTH of those mics will post and be able to compare them verbally for you.

Mics are SO subjective... what one person likes, another may hate. (within reason....)

That said, I like my pair of MXL 603s just fine... oh, and I've heard alot of good things about the C4s...
 
i like the c4s, especially for what your doing
 
turnitdown said:
I know it really doesn't help, but why not try them both... Then you can decide what YOU think sounds best, and not what others think.

Hopefully, someone who actually owns BOTH of those mics will post and be able to compare them verbally for you.

Mics are SO subjective... what one person likes, another may hate. (within reason....)

That said, I like my pair of MXL 603s just fine... oh, and I've heard alot of good things about the C4s...

Good advice. There is somewhat of a complication on this one. The only two music stores where I'm from do not have competitive prices and they know it. They have the nicest salespeople though and they've become friends of mine. They do not carry these two mics in stock and I don't feel right about having them order them for me knowing that I will end up buying on the internet. In other words, I can't try them out unless I drive to Dallas which is about 5 hours. A little bit of a dilemma there.

Anyway, I know that sound is so subjective but I guess I just really want to know if these two mics are in the same league/class. If this is the case, I'll go with the better deals on the internet.

Hope I make sense. If not, I'm a newbie and that's my excuse. :D
 
Just from a bang for the buck perspective, a matched set of 603's will run you around $200 vs $350 or so for the C4's. 1 bulk pack 4041 from 8th Street will run you $200. I have the 603 matched set and an unmatched pair of 4041's (and a set of Oktava's, but who's counting?) I love them all. If I had it to do over again, I'd have gone for the C4's. The omni caps would seal the deal for me.
 
where to buy a pair MXL 603's

Where are they selling a pair of 603's for $200. bucks!
 
Sage97 said:
Good advice. There is somewhat of a complication on this one. The only two music stores where I'm from do not have competitive prices and they know it. They have the nicest salespeople though and they've become friends of mine. They do not carry these two mics in stock and I don't feel right about having them order them for me knowing that I will end up buying on the internet. In other words, I can't try them out unless I drive to Dallas which is about 5 hours. A little bit of a dilemma there.

Anyway, I know that sound is so subjective but I guess I just really want to know if these two mics are in the same league/class. If this is the case, I'll go with the better deals on the internet.

Hope I make sense. If not, I'm a newbie and that's my excuse. :D

It isn't all about the best price. The local dealer should be willing to order both on the verbal understanding that you will purchase one pair or the other. So what if you pay $50 extra for the pair? Having a local pro audio dealer or two is well worth it. As time goes by, you'll appreciate that local presence more and more.

Anyway, as between the C4s and the 4041s, I would go with the C4s, but that's me, for my use (solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar). That's not to say the 4041s are not as "good". They are, overall, in the same quality class as the C4s, among many other cheap small condensers. The 4041s are fairly flat, but there's a small bump at 8k and a larger bump about 12k or so. Dunno about their off-axis response, as the data on the website only shows the polar pattern for 1k Hz. Kinda makes me suspect. I remember liking the 4041, for fingerstyle acoustic guitar. They were pleasing and musical. They reminded me of the Shure SM81.

The C4 has a fairly flat response with two modest HF bumps. The C4 is not flat in the bass, as it gently rolls off. The 4041 is flat in the bass.

A pair of 4041s will cost about $550. The C4 pair runs about $350, with the additional omni caps.

As I remember from your other thread at acousticguitarforum.com, you mentioned you'll be recording vocals too, not at the same time, but alone.

You're gonna need a vocal mic too. The savings from buying a pair of C4s can be used towards a decent vocal mic.

Along with your RNP, you should have the tools to make some excellent recordings.

Dont' forget room treatment.

Of course, next will be those crummy converters in your recorder.
 
Excellent advice sdelsolrey. Exactly what I needed to hear. I do need to figure out exactly what "bump" means.

I'm off to the local music store tomorrow morning and visit with the guys. When the time comes for an LD condenser, I'll give you (and everyone else) a shout.

Thank God I don't know what converters are. I don't need to know. Well, at least for now.

Even though I don't feel qualified to do so, I'll give a report on my findings based on what my ears like.

Now I need to call on my muse for inspiration and put all these gear to use.

Thanks again.
 
A "bump" is a voltage (volume) increase for a particular frequency range (e.g., 4k Hz to 8k Hz) within that microphone's overall frequency response (e.g., 20 Hz to 20k Hz). A "dip" is a decrease in the voltage (volume). Mic response is represented by two graphs, one is x-y for the frequency response vs. volume and the other is a polar graph which shows how well (how consistently) the mic pics up various frequencies at different angles from the front of the mic.

Flat response mics are more difficult to make, and cost more. They are more accurate. All mics will lose some response in the higher frequencies off axis, but some lose less than others or "lose" it more smoothly than others.

Most mics do not have a flat response. Indeed, many mics have bumps on purpose.

You can find the xy and polar graphs for the C4 and 4041 at the Studio Projects and AT websites, respectively. Many will say (and they're right) that these graphs don't tell all. Nonetheless, learning how to read the graphs helps in a basic understanding of how the mic will work (or not work) for you. Here's the graphs for the Schoeps CMC6/MK4 small diaphragm mic, my favorite mic for solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar. The x-y response is flat, nearly "ruler flat". The polar shows a smooth fall off of 4k, 8k and 16k Hz frequencies off axis (at 90 degrees).
 

Attachments

  • schoeps.webp
    schoeps.webp
    26 KB · Views: 87
I haven't heard the C4, so I can't compare, but the AT4041 is an under-rated mic, IMO....

Yes - it has a bump in the graph, but it actually sounds very smooth -- not harsh in the top. I've used it quite successfully on ac. gtr and hi-hat in the past.....
 
Just as I thought. Neither store carries Studio Projects and none had no idea what 4041 is. Oh well.

This is exactly why I buy almost 100% of my stuff online (Taylors, PRS, AKAI, Cornford, FMR stuff, T-Rex, Teese wah, etc) and mainly based on user recommendations.
 
Back
Top