Newbie Needs Advice - Getting Too Much "Room" With Close 57

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rozman
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Rozman

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Hi. I am new to this forum and pretty new to most of the issues discussed in it, so please bear with me. I've been close micing my 2x10 guitar cab in band practice with an SM57, using good AT headphones and a Presonus headphone amp (and a Mackie mixer). We mic everything and everyone uses phones. I get decent drum sounds (ATM-25, Pro37R, etc) and a decent bass sound using one Audix i5, but I get this horrible washed out guitar sound using an SM57. It simply sounds like the room, and the room is my basement. The guitar just gets lost in the mix--I have to crank it too loud to hear it clearly. I have the mic pressing right up against the grill, and the sound is still like playing in a cave, totally unfocused. Is that just a function of using an SM57? I would think the less than ideal room would affect drums and bass to the same extent, but I really need to use too much EQ and volume on guitar. I am shocked how much room I hear with the mic right up tight against the grill cloth. Is this a common problem with SM57s? Would a flatter mic help? Thanks.
 
Well, I think that if it sounds bad in the room, then it's going to sound bad in the mix


-jeffrey
 
I don't think it's the mic at all. I think the problem is more likely the room, the mic placement and the amp settings. the only problem you could have is that the 57 is ruined somehow.

Try switching the 57 and i5, see if that helps...and if you can, pick up a DI box and stop micing the bass amp - it'll help eliminate another mic in the room picking up the guitar.

After that try moving the mic and changing your amp settings.

After that, research sound treatment (search acoustic panels) and start setting them up around your room.

jacob
 
If the mic is right up against the grill, and the mic is working okay, the problem is NOT your room - at least nor your room through that microphone.

0. Make sure your 57 works okay.

1. Try recording ONLY your guitar, using your current setup, but with no one else playing.

2. Now pull down the faders on the OTHER channels and repeat. Which sounds better?

If 2 sounds better than 1, then the problem IS your room OR mic placement issues with the OTHER mics.

If 1 sounds better than 2, then you need to change something in your signal chain - mic, cable, or mixer channel.

If they both sound bad, then you need to look to the settings on your amp and possibly your playing.
 
Sounds like a phase issue or true polarity prob. Could be a stong reflection from a nearby hard reflective surface. Put something absorbant (sp) behind the mic to dampen reflections. .02. Live end dead end technique.
 
Thank you all. But One More Question, If You Would Be So Kind .

This all helps alot, and I will try these suggestions this weekend; I now realize that the other mics picking up the signal may be a factor. Here's the thing: standing in the room, with no headphones on, the guitar and amp sound fantastic to me. When I put on the phones, the distant room sound effect is way, way more prominent as compared to when I'm just standing 6 feet from the amp, with no phones on, playing the guitar.

The singer's vocal mic is probably picking up the amp, since I can talk to the other guys between songs even though everyone has phones on, and I don't have my own vocal mic. I am going to experiment this weekend with separating the mics and sound sources.

However, there is still one big lingering question and that is, how do you get your guitar sound on tape or in the phones to sound like what it sounds like in the room? Even though the room is not great sonically, my live guitar sounds great in the room with no phones on. It just sounds crappy (distant and reverby) through a microphone. In other words, the mic hears the room effects more than my ears do, if that makes any sense. Thanks.
 
A close miced amp will never sound the same through headphones as the amp naturally sounds in a room. However, I've close miced with a '57 a million times and never had a problem with too much room. So, and pardon the simplicity of this advice , try these:

1) Are you running reverb on the amp? If so, turn it off.

2) You say the mic is on the grill, is it on axis on one of the speakers? If you're using a 2X10 stereo amp with some effects (especially modulation effects) and trying to mic between the speakers, you are probably encountering phase cancelation of the left versus right speaker.

3) Throw a heavy quilt over the amp and speaker to semi-isolate it.

4) Boost the mids and highs on your amp. This is the bread and butter guitar range and will help cut through the other instruments.

5) Try a different mic.
 
I don't see that you have worked on mic placement. The 57 is by no means a point-and-shoot mic. If you throw on some 'phones, and hold and manually twist the mic and wander around in front of your speakers while somebodu plays, you will definately improve your sound.

It is true that the bleed into other mics will sound pretty dismal in an untreated room, that's part of what makes an amature recording sound amature. You can turn down, and try the blanket thing, since everybody wears 'phones.
 
Rozman said:
This all helps alot, and I will try these suggestions this weekend; I now realize that the other mics picking up the signal may be a factor. Here's the thing: standing in the room, with no headphones on, the guitar and amp sound fantastic to me. When I put on the phones, the distant room sound effect is way, way more prominent as compared to when I'm just standing 6 feet from the amp, with no phones on, playing the guitar.

The singer's vocal mic is probably picking up the amp, since I can talk to the other guys between songs even though everyone has phones on, and I don't have my own vocal mic. I am going to experiment this weekend with separating the mics and sound sources.

However, there is still one big lingering question and that is, how do you get your guitar sound on tape or in the phones to sound like what it sounds like in the room? Even though the room is not great sonically, my live guitar sounds great in the room with no phones on. It just sounds crappy (distant and reverby) through a microphone. In other words, the mic hears the room effects more than my ears do, if that makes any sense. Thanks.
Click to expand...
This clears up a lot. If you have other mics up in the room at the same time that are also picking up the guitar, that adds the room wash.
Does the guitar close-track by it's self have too much room? If not -next issue, how to get closer to the good tone you hear standing in the room. In this case you have a dilemma going on with the other instruments being in the room at the same time: To get closer to what you hear standing there, you'll likely need some combination of close and/or stereo mics using a bit of distance. But this might also require this to be done without bleed from other mics, or other instruments.
Last kink in the whole thing is that mics right where you're standing might not capture it right simply because mics don't pick up the way we hear it live. Aside from the physical reasons, our ear/brain are doing things automatically 'live' to compensate that doesn't happen on playback.
Maybe you can find placements and a balance where the other mics provide some abbience without it washing out.
Wayne
 
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