new tune -- tell me what you think (again)

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maryslittlesecret

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Howdy, all. I’m back with a new tune (in stereo this time). It’s called “Dying Again” and is up at our mp3.com page, http://www.mp3.com/30SoS. When you get the chance, please go out, take a listen, and let me know what you think of the production, song, performance, whatever. Feel free to draw comparisons to the first tune and let me know if I’m getting any better or worse… ;-)>

As a side note, I had some problems uploading the stereo version of our first tune, “Complete”, but I got everything figured out and I’m guessing that it should be up within about a week. I’ll let you know when it’s out there and those of you who commented on the original can let me know what you think of the stereo version. Thanks!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
Very nice....sounds a bit like a not-so-well known Canadian band that I like a lot, Econoline Crush. Just some general comments, I like the vocals but I feel like there could be some more variation that you could fit in there. From 3:00-3:40, I really like what's going on there, maybe you could do a bit of a "bridge" or something after that (I don't know what the correct term is here) and then back to the chorus to finish the song. I really like the guitar sounds you're getting, dare I ask how you're doing that?

Overall, it sounds very well produced and mixed, no complaints there. Again, I think you may want to add something to the lyrics just to elaborate on the "theme" of the song.

BTW, I'm over in Iowa City...it's good to know there's something going on in Iowa.
 
Cool! Man, very very loud. I also kind of like your guitar sound. Smooth and deep...maybe a little mucky but definately good. The first megaphone-sounding vocals were GREAT, especially mixed with the electronic noises. Speaking of electronics, I think you did a very nice job of creating cool rythyms without being at all distracting.

Very good!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanks for the comments, Dole and Slack. The guitar is actually just a POD 2.0 with a very small amount of internal POD reverb -- no outboard fx or eq. I took my time coming up with some patches I liked -- listening to CDs and trying to capture/edit those tones -- and am blending about three different tones for the overall guitar sound. For as relatively inexpensive as the POD is, I think most every studio could use one...

And thanks for the comments on the electronics, Slack. We love having them in there and I think it adds a lot, but we're always concerned about overdoing it. Glad to hear we had a good balance.

And Dole, could you give me some specifics on the vocals. I'm not a very confident singer, so I know they could use some work, but I don't know if you're thinking do more with melody, add harmonies, shoot for more intensity, etc. Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks again!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
Yeah, I figured it was a POD and, despite what people say about them, I happen to like them a lot for rock/metal, especially for distorted sounds.

And Dole, could you give me some specifics on the vocals. I'm not a very confident singer, so I know they could use some work, but I don't know if you're thinking do more with melody, add harmonies, shoot for more intensity, etc. Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks again!

You know, I'm actually pretty impressed with your vocals, I guess I should have said "lyrics" instead. I'll see what I can come up with about the vocals though.

I think I would try singing a little less "strained" except where your looking to add emphasis. It sounds very good in the chorus but perhaps there could be a bit more emotional range in the verses. One technique that Trent Reznor is said to use on occasion is to sing kind of quietly and close to the mic and just boost the gain at the preamp (and probably use some transparent compression). I think this technique would work very well at about 2:12-2:17 (I know this is nitpicky) and it would make it more powerful transition when the guitars come back in right at 2:18. This might be too difficult to do properly...but its just an idea. It should work as long as you do a punch-in rather than tracking the transition straight through.

Overall, I would say the vocals sound slightly thin, but they fit in the mix quite well so it might be a good compromise. I know its difficult to have confidence in your voice, but I really think it sounds good, and definitely good enough that I would like to hear it a bit more in the overall mix. I would either boost it a little bit or try to make it a little thicker by double tracking it in places or copying it and delay the copied track slightly, maybe play with panning, etc.

As far as lyrics, I would say the chorus starts to wear on me a little bit around 3:55 and I'm not sure why. I know that's close to the end and I hate to play with the structure of such a good song but another verse or something just to add a little lyrical variation would be nice just after that instrumental part. That's what struck me initially when I first listened to the song and I still think there might be something you could do there, but I don't feel quite as strongly about it as I listen to it again. Here's another idea, you could lead into that instrumental part with something other than the chorus, then it wouldn't be quite as repetitative when you pick it back up at 3:40. Anyway, think about it.

Still, this is a very good song and I'm being extremely picky with these suggestions. BTW, like slack, I think the synths are done quite well. May I ask what mics and what synths you're using?

Keep making this good stuff, man! :cool:
 
one tiny thing I forgot

There are a few plosives that are popping a little bit, "painful" at 2:10. Hmmm, I thought there was another one somewhere but I'm not finding it now. Anyway, you might want to smooth that over a bit just to make it sound more professional.
 
I think it's terrific. Nothing I can point at and suggest could be improved, unless I want to get nitpicky...
 
Cool mix,

I like the guitars. On my heapdhones, the kick was not quite defined.

THe vox sounds fine, but needs something(it sounds a bit unreal). Maybe a new mic . Like an AKG c12 . just kidding

Nice song too.

peace
 
Nice song man, recording sounds good, the guitar is nice and thick, that pod sound better sound then i get, even when i mic a pretty good amp. let us know when you post the song complete in stereo, later...
-Andrew
 
Man if that's a Pod, I gotta have one. That guitar tone was mucho awesome. Great song I thought to boot and very well recorded. Some harmonies would really fatten up the vocals...I feel, just an opinion. Like slack said about the "first mega-phone voice" I could hear that one just right, and the rest of them got a little lost in the mix..atleast the ones in the mid section of the song. But shit man this track rocks, sounds a little A/Chains kinda sortta for me and I can dig it. gonna go check out your other track...
 
thanks, everyone!

I really appreciate all the comments. Let me see if I can address these...

Everyone who heard my previous tune (especially iravage) - After weeks of juggling and waiting, the stereo version of "Complete" is up! I deleted the mono one so you can't really do a 'compare and contrast', but feel free to let me know how the stereo one compares to what you remember...

Dole - Awesome! Thanks for writing such a detailed post. Glad to know you're listening that closely and have some in-depth thoughts on the tune. I'm still 'inventing' my vocal style (if you can call it that), but I'll try the NIN thing and see if I have the gear/skill to pull it off. Some of the vocals are doubled but not as tight as I would've liked them so they're way down in the mix. And I think something to switch up the chorus at the end is a great idea! I don't know about another verse, but some variation there would be good. If I can come up with something where I don't have to retrack a lot, I'll definitley do it. My big question is that I also heard (and didn't like) the plosive at 2:10 -- is there anyway to 'fix that in the mix' as they say or do I need to retrack that vocal. Let me know...

AlChuck - Feel free to get nitpicky if you like. I'm not sure if I have the gear or know-how to do a lot differently, but I'm always game to try and want to learn.

Cyan - There's not a lot we can do with the drum machine to bring just the kick out. We've tried some others patches/samples, but this is our favorite. For the next tune, I'll try boosting the level a little in a pre-mix to see if that helps.

iravage - see above... ;-)>

David - Thanks for checking it out. Glad you dig it. There is actually a harmony in the chorus, but it's intetntionally buried (again, getting comfortable with my voice). That probably also addresses the other vocals being a little lower in the mix...

Everyone - Thanks for the comments and feel free to keep them coming -- I'm learning a lot in terms of what to keep doing and what could use some work. Since the vocals are a hot topic, any tips on compression (during tracking or in the mix) would be great. I know next to nothing about how to use compression effectively. Thanks, again!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
The only thing that really helps I think with POD and recording heavy guitar is to use two different sounds left and right... even radically different. With this song I can tell it's two guitar tracks, in stereo, but it sounds like the same guitar and the same amp... For really heavy stuff, I often use one of the Boogie or Soldano models on one side, and a Fuzz model on the other side, with the gain at about 60-80%. Even though the Fuzz sound on its own sounds like mush, when you mix it with a really tight, defined sound on the other side, the whole guitar sound becomes really thick.

Also, I really think some nice drum samples would put your songs over the edge (I know I said the same thing last time, but when you don't have a live drummer, you find ways to cope...). FruityLoops is a great program for creating drum loops, and killer, real-sounding samples are readily available all over the place.
 
J,

Fixing that plosive should be fairly easy, assuming you have some decent software. What you want to do is zoom way in on just that P sound in the vocal track and either a use high-pass filter, remove some of the low EQ, or just lower the overall gain. Another thing that I haven't tried but is supposed to work well is to use an FFT analyzer and locate the P frequencies and draw a new FFT curve to remove them (you have to have software that does this of course, I know Cool Edit Pro does for sure and I'm guessing Sound Forge does too). Anyway, you obviously want to just make these changes over the very short area of the offending pop. BTW, you may want to look at these rec.audio.pro threads:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g...:plosives&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&meta=site=groups

Good luck, man, LMK how it goes.
 
Love your stuff. I feel that this song is even better than the last one you posted. Your vocals are much more dynamic and that adds to the song a lot.

For the benefit of those trying to get those sounds out of the pod. Could you tell us how you did it? How about the electronic sounding stuff. Was that with acid/ korg chaos? If you could go through the steps of recording your song with the equipment you used it would be great for us who are into the same genre of music.

cheers and keep um coming.
 
I agree with Samana, I really think your songs are the strongest I've heard in this forum. You have a really good songwriting sense, and your voice is great. I don't think it'll be too long before you find the rest of the musicians to round out your band, if that is what you're looking for, and these are definitely strong demos you are posting.
 
Wow! Thanks for all the great comments!

Charger is right in terms of blending two different guitar tones with the POD. I haven't used the Fuzz tone yet, but I actually have three different rhythm guitars (each with a slightly different tone) going at all times -- one center, one hard right, and one hard left. It make a huge difference...

Charger -- we've talked about upgrading our 'drum set-up' -- I've heard a lot of great things about Fruity Loops and even other drum modules (DM Pro seems nice). But for now we're in kind of a zone recording-wise (at least for us) and will probably try and keep things going and maybe improve on what we have before taking the time to change/learn new gear. I hope you'll still listen and be as kind with your posts... ;-)>

Dole -- many thanks for the tip on the plosive. Seems easy enough. Since we've still got a ton of other songs to record, I probably won't go back and fix it immediately, but I'm glad to know there's a way to do it without retracking...

Virtual Samana - We can't thank you enough for the positive comments. It makes us very proud to hear stuff like that and inspires us to keep working. I'd be happy to go over our recording process with you, but I'll have to wait until I'm at home when I can type a more detailed message. I hope no one else will mind me taking the time and space on this post to address this... If so, let me know and I can email my response instead.

And Charger again -- thanks as well. Our main focus has always been songwriting, so I'm glad to know that stands out. And I'm especially pleased about the vocal comments from you and VS. I'm a reluctant singer -- I really enjoy doing it but don't have a lot of confidence yet. You guys make me feel a lot better about taking the mic and I'm sure your support will impact my performance in future tunes.

Thanks again to everyone and keep your input coming.

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
hey man, the songs are way more important than the drum sounds anyway. just keep the writing coming!

when are you going to share your gear list?
 
Okay, for those of you who are interested, here's our gear list (though I don't believe there's anything that remarkably unique about any of this). Not everything listed is used on every tune, so if you're curious about a particular sound or tone, just let me know and I'll try and specifiy...

CPU/Software:
Home made PC with PIII 600 processor and 512K RAM
Wami Rack 24 PCI soundcard
Cakewalk 9.03
ACID 2.0
Sonic Foundry Methods of Mayhem loops disc (have others but haven't got to them yet)
Sound Forge 4.5 (for two track edits)

Outboard gear:
Boss DR660 drum machine
POD 2.0 (guitar model, though I also run my bass through it)
AKG C3000 microphone
dbx 286A Mic preamp/processor
ART DR-X 2100 effects unit (used on for vocals)
Roland U20 keyboard
Roland JV-1010 sound module
Alesis QSR sound module
Korg Kaoss Pad (for turntable effects)
BBE 362NR (always run the final mix through this going to two tracks -- love it!)
Jackson PS4(?) guitar
Charvel bass (bought it used, don't know the model)

VirtualSamana -- I started to write an overview of our recording process and it turned into what would've been a mammoth post. If there's something in specific you'd like to know, maybe I can post a more succinct answer (you're right about ACID and the Kaoss -- good ear!). If you wanna know more about our overall recording process, feel free to drop me an email and I can send it to you. Or if there are enough other people who are also interested, let me know and I can post it -- I just hate taking up so much space talking about my own project on a thread that I started (seems arrogant). Thanks, everyone!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
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