Original Tune: The things I never won (Pop Punk/Alternative Rock)

Flyguitarfish

Flyguitarfish

Member
Well I’ll throw this one out there as a first entry to this forum. I wrote and recorded it in my basement studio today. Like a technical pop punk tune w some alternative rock feel. Mixing is a struggle, especially w such a dense mix. Any advice is welcomed. I’m not the strongest drummer or singer, so go easy on me! Thanks!

The things I never won

There is really nowhere left to go
But the dark side of the moon
And the edges of our minds
Like the corners of this room
(Corners of this room!)

Tomorrow we’ll be next in line
Slamming all the doors
Making our escape over hardwood floors

A memory of someone
And stupid things they’ve done
A statue made of nothing
And the things I never won

If ignorance is bliss.
Let’s lay you down to rest
With a little kiss
And sheets are comfortless

A memory of someone
And the stupid things I’ve done
A statue made of nothing
Like the things I never won


View attachment The things I never won MIX 5.mp3

Little better mix…I think…
View attachment The things I never won MIX8.mp3
 
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I like the tightness of this, very cool reminds me a little of Fountains Of Wayne or Sum 41. Listening on headphones, mix sounds pretty well balanced. I like your guitar tone. Cool lyrics, enjoyed this!
 
stratmonkee said:
I like the tightness of this, very cool reminds me a little of Fountains Of Wayne or Sum 41. Listening on headphones, mix sounds pretty well balanced. I like your guitar tone. Cool lyrics, enjoyed this!
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Thanks for the positive feedback. Listening again this morning it’s sounding pretty harsh overall in the high end. I’ll try to tame it a bit and add some clarity in the midrange. It’s crazy how your ears trick you after listening for a while! I’ll post an improved mix later today.

Guitar (HSS Suhr Strat) went though an Archer IKON, with a Fulldrive II or BE-OD for variety. All went through a Dual Rectifier and PRS Archon w Mesa 2x12 mic’d with A couple SM57’s and Beyerdynamic M160 (this mic is awesome). Bass was through an Orange Bass Butler. I love that thing! Recording drums is always a struggle.

Funny you mentioned Fountains of Wayne. I’ve never really listened to them, but I’ve been told that by multiple people. I’ll have to give them a listen. Sum 41 is definitely an influence; good call. I listened to a lot of NOFX this week because I found some vinyl at a pawn shop, so that nudged me a bit as well.

Which genre do you record? I’d love to take a listen. Is this a good website for this style of music, or would you recommend another?

Thanks!
 
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Really good performance and arrangement. +1 on the M160. I'm listening on KRK V6's, treated room. It sounded a little better balanced to my ear with a slight wide boost at 350Hz and a slight wide cut at 3.5K Hz.
 
XLR said:
Really good performance and arrangement. +1 on the M160. I'm listening on KRK V6's, treated room. It sounded a little better balanced to my ear with a slight wide boost at 350Hz and a slight wide cut at 3.5K Hz.
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Thanks for the feedback. Mix not as harsh or bassy. Allows a little more room for the vocals. I also added a weird sound effect intro (I reversed a bunch of cymbals and broken glass, lol). Doesn’t catch you quite as off guard this way.
Any better? Thanks!
View attachment The things I never won MIX 7.mp3
 
That is pretty tight. Has that 90's, early 2000's feel. Good stuff.

Now this is a production question/comment, towards the end did you intend for the vocals to be at the same level as the guitar? I sounded intentional, hence the question.
 
DM60 said:
That is pretty tight. Has that 90's, early 2000's feel. Good stuff.

Now this is a production question/comment, towards the end did you intend for the vocals to be at the same level as the guitar? I sounded intentional, hence the question.
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Thanks, I dive into this genre often.

Yeah, the vocals are repetitive at that point, the listener has heard them already, so I just wanted to swallow them up with newer more interesting elements. I’m not afraid to put the vocals on the back burner from time to time for the overall effect!
 
To my ear, you pulled back on your overall high end Eq too much in the second mix.
I think you should have just pulled back on the guitars a bit and made the snare less bright.
Not really my genre of choice lol... but, yes, "tight" and good mix!
 
JAPOV said:
To my ear, you pulled back on your overall high end Eq too much in the second mix.
I think you should have just pulled back on the guitars a bit and made the snare less bright.
Not really my genre of choice lol... but, yes, "tight" and good mix!
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Thank you for the feedback! I think you’re right and I over corrected a bit. It goes without saying, it’s so hard to balance things just right!

Out of curiosity, are you comparing the mixes side by side, or to a different comparison track of the same genre? Just asking because I also tend to favor the brighter mix. It’s hard to remember to compare to a professional standard. I’m not always good about that! I do know the highs were overbearing in my car, and my other favorite songs from my favorite bands sound great in there.

I’ll go back and see where I can pull in more highs. Thanks again!
 
One thing I notice is that there's nearly constant true peak clipping. While it's not technically clipping in digital, the reconstructed waveform goes a bit above the highest samples, which may clip in analog depending on the converters. It seems to do so on my system, adding an additional layer of distortion to what the guitars are doing.. When I lower the digital gain by 1.1 or 1.2 dB, it seems to sound better.

The interrupted red line over the level graph indicates true peaks over 0 dBFS.

True Peak Clipping.png
 
bouldersoundguy said:
One thing I notice is that there's nearly constant true peak clipping. While it's not technically clipping in digital, the reconstructed waveform goes a bit above the highest samples, which may clip in analog depending on the converters. It seems to do so on my system, adding an additional layer of distortion to what the guitars are doing.. When I lower the digital gain by 1.1 or 1.2 dB, it seems to sound better.

The interrupted red line over the level graph indicates true peaks over 0 dBFS.

View attachment 134606
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Interesting, so I use a mastering plugin (Brainworx bx_Masterdesk) that I adjust the overall level and add a little more compression as a final step on the master bus in Ableton. Would your analysis tell us if it’s clipping before it hits the master bus?..because the plugin looks like is coming out at a high, but acceptable, level. I’m just trying to figure out where to back off the volume.
Thank you!
 
I suspect it's just happening at the end of your chain. It's entirely possible that it isn't clipping as a wav file, but converting to mp3 is what's putting peaks over 0 dBTP.

The last plugin in my mastering chain is the mastering limiter. My process involves pulling the output of the limiter down by 1.2 dB and then driving the mix to the desired LUFS level (or just whatever feels right if LUFS isn't important). When converted to mp3, my mastered file peaks tend to creep up a few tenths to about -0.9 dBTP.

The disadvantage is that if you're already crushing your mix, that's another 1 dB or so you have to push the limiter to get your target level. The advantage is that it's pretty much immune to unintended clipping.

I like the brainworx stuff. I've used the bx_digital as a mastering eq, usually ahead of a Slate limiter (in my friend's studio). My home setup includes the Fab Filter Pro-Q 3 and Pro-L 2.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I suspect it's just happening at the end of your chain. It's entirely possible that it isn't clipping as a wav file, but converting to mp3 is what's putting peaks over 0 dBTP.

The last plugin in my mastering chain is the mastering limiter. My process involves pulling the output of the limiter down by 1.2 dB and then driving the mix to the desired LUFS level (or just whatever feels right if LUFS isn't important). When converted to mp3, my mastered file peaks tend to creep up a few tenths to about -0.9 dBTP.

The disadvantage is that if you're already crushing your mix, that's another 1 dB or so you have to push the limiter to get your target level. The advantage is that it's pretty much immune to unintended clipping.

I like the brainworx stuff. I've used the bx_digital as a mastering eq, usually ahead of a Slate limiter (in my friend's studio). My home setup includes the Fab Filter Pro-Q 3 and Pro-L 2.
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That’s great info, thanks! I understand most of it, lol! Maybe I can just aim a little lower if I’m going to convert to mp3.

What do you use to convert to mp3? I just pull the WAV into iTunes and then convert it in there. There’s probably much better software!

This site is awesome, much appreciation!
 
Flyguitarfish said:
Thanks for the feedback. Mix not as harsh or bassy. Allows a little more room for the vocals. I also added a weird sound effect intro (I reversed a bunch of cymbals and broken glass, lol). Doesn’t catch you quite as off guard this way.
Any better? Thanks!
View attachment 134594
Click to expand...

I like the tone of this better than the first one.

I'd have a look at the vocal as there is a noticeable difference in volume between the loudest and quietest parts fluctuating throughout.
 
HumanPlanet said:
I like the tone of this better than the first one.

I'd have a look at the vocal as there is a noticeable difference in volume between the loudest and quietest parts fluctuating throughout.
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Definitely, thanks for the feedback. I’ll go back and listen with that in mind. I don’t always mind dropping the vocals a little lower in parts, but I’ll go back through for another critical listen.
It’s basically impossible to mix your own stuff objectively! Between all the takes on all the instruments I’ve heard it 300 times. Another reason this is such a great resource. Much appreciated!
 
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