New Studio / Music Room

[mjbphotos]

I agree that reducing your room size is probably not good the way you drew it, possibly going to a 14'x11' or 14x10 would be better (use a room node calculator to see if you see any differences).
Ceiling cloud typically only needs to be 2" rockwool, with a small gap between it and the ceiling - you don't need to trap the bass notes so much with the cloud. A 4" panel across a corner leaves a gap behind it that can be stuffed with pink fibreglass, recycled cotton/denim, etc.

 

[Buggaluggs]

OK. So my pea-brain simplification of sound treatment being made up of just three things: 1) Wall - 100% reflections all consistent based on angle of incidence; 2) Abs Panels - 100% absorption; 3) Diffusers - 100% random dispersion. Is a bit off then?

 

[Buggaluggs]

I was planning on using Acoustimac panels, but I see Lowes 2" rock wool is cheaper. I can use that for the ceiling. But maybe still use acoustimac 6" traps for the corners

 

[mr average]

A couple of general points. In order to establish a decent sounding room for mixing, you will have to put in a substantial number of bass traps. Once that is done, the room is likely to sound very dead and would not be great for a "live room" for performers. Besides, once it is fully trapped, they might be sitting in your lap. Keep in mind that in order to be effective, most traps would need to be fairly thick. Four inches is sort of a minimum, and the corners would probably have to be more like 24-36" to be effective. I have my doubts about 4-6" of rock wool across the corners, especially in a square room. You will also need a ceiling cloud trap which would also start at about 4" with a gap of about the same dimension. So you can see how quickly things will fill in.

The luddites around here will scorn me for this, but you should consider looking at a room mode calculator or using measurement to learn more about the problems you face. I would also get some input from a retailer (like GIK). DIY trapping is cheaper, but you may need to hit this space with some well designed traps, including soffit traps.

None of this means you can't have fun or can't eventually produce some nice music. It's just that square rooms are notoriously tough to treat. In the end, you may have to accept some compromises, and you may have to rely on a combination of monitors and headphones.

Or you could just use headphones and totally remove the room issues.

 

[mr average]

View attachment 104418View attachment 104418

Would these work as diffuers? I can get these for $5 each and cover some wall space with them.

They would work a 'little', but would not be a solution.

Use headphones. Save the money and still remove the room from affecting what you hear.

 

[Buggaluggs]

Using headphones really defeats the point of having a purposed music room. I want a room I con go to. Play the acoustic guitar or electric. Loud if I want to. Record myself or others and mix the results. This is all a bit disappointing.

 

[dwillis45]

Ceiling cloud typically only needs to be 2" rockwool, with a small gap between it and the ceiling - you don't need to trap the bass notes so much with the cloud. A 4" panel across a corner leaves a gap behind it that can be stuffed with pink fibreglass, recycled cotton/denim, etc.

My room (also a square room) behaved differently. I had a fairly significant build up of bass frequencies around 150hz at the ceiling above the mix position. That was after placing multiple 2" panels with a 4" air gap. I discovered this by room measurement and by playing test tones and sticking my head up there. I subsequently had this confirmed by consulting GIK and they suggested beefing up the cloud to at least 4" with a 4" air gap.
I did and, viola, the 150hz peak got knocked down.

So you never know. That's why it's really hard to give treatment advice. All rooms are different.

 

[dwillis45]

A 4" panel across a corner leaves a gap behind it that can be stuffed with pink fibreglass, recycled cotton/denim, etc.

This also didn't work in my room. I started with 4" of 703 floor to ceiling in the corners. I measured and I wasn't happy. The 703 was underperforming. So I added more to a total of 6" with an air gap of about one foot. I measured and still had low end issues. Finally, I built 4 super chunk traps (24"x24"). That did the trick. So my advice, if you have the room, go big. I might even be tempted to go 36"x36"

 

[dwillis45]

Or you could just use headphones and totally remove the room issues.

That's true but you will introduce a host of other problems, including placement, volume, etc. Headphones can't give you a realistic portrayal of sounds at the center of a mix--especially the relative volume of those instruments. There are software fixes for some of this (see Redline Monitor and Sonar Works) but they will only take you so far.

Headphone are great for hearing details and editing errors. They also keep the neighbors happy. But arguing for headphone-only mixes will get you a quick case of BBS scorn.

 

[dwillis45]

That's true but you will introduce a host of other problems, including placement, volume, etc. Headphones can't give you a realistic portrayal of sounds at the center of a mix--especially the relative volume of those instruments. There are software fixes for some of this (see Redline Monitor and Sonar Works) but they will only take you so far.

Headphone are great for hearing details and editing errors. They also keep the neighbors happy. But arguing for headphone-only mixes will get you a quick case of BBS scorn.

There is, of course, one exception to this rule: If you want to mix music for yourself using the same headphones to listen. It's cheap, it works, and you don't have to worry about room acoustics. You also don't have to play the music for your friends, upload it, or market your work. It's a lonely and solitary existence, but it does work.

 

[Buggaluggs]

My room (also a square room) behaved differently. I had a fairly significant build up of bass frequencies around 150hz at the ceiling above the mix position. That was after placing multiple 2" panels with a 4" air gap. I discovered this by room measurement and by playing test tones and sticking my head up there. I subsequently had this confirmed by consulting GIK and they suggested beefing up the cloud to at least 4" with a 4" air gap.
I did and, viola, the 150hz peak got knocked down.

So you never know. That's why it's really hard to give treatment advice. All rooms are different.

How big is your room?

 

[dwillis45]

This is all a bit disappointing.

Well, you could find another space with more ideal dimensions. Or simply live with the original space. You're not alone in your disappointment. A lot of people struggle with this. You may end up treating the space as best you can within your budget then trying to deal with the results though critical listing. Listen to your mixes in multiple environments and make corrections as you go. It's a lot of work, but you might be able to dig your way out of the room issue by using your ears. In any case, don't let any of this stop you from recording.

---------- Update ----------

How big is your room?

It's slightly larger than yours--about 20'x20' with an eight foot ceiling

 

[Buggaluggs]

It's slightly larger than yours--

Jees. If I had a dollar

 

[dwillis45]

How big is your room?

Pics are here:

Studio Pics

 

[dwillis45]

Room tests here:

Room Measurements...Can I stop now?

 

[dwillis45]

Jees. If I had a dollar

I have an extra 6' on either dimension. But it's still square with a short ceiling.

 

[Buggaluggs]

Pics are here:

Studio Pics

Nice. What lights are you using? Are there any no-no s when it comes to light fixture types? I have a halogen stand lamp with dimmer that acts a bit like radio dial for noise.

---------- Update ----------

I have an extra 6' on either dimension. But it's still square with a short ceiling.

million dollar question....does it work? To your satisfaction?

 

[dwillis45]

The biggest issue may be all that concrete. It will give you great isolation, but it's highly reflective. Much more so than drywall. It doesn't absorb or flex. Have you considered studs, drywall, and insulation has a first step? What's your budget look like? Can you hang drywall or frame a wall?

 

[dwillis45]

I'm not a big lighting expert. Those lights are halogen spots but they are usually off when I work. I just use a small desk lamp and my mole eyes.

I wouldn't worry too much about light right now. You have other issues to tackle and it looks like you may need power.

 

[Buggaluggs]

I'm not a big lighting expert. Those lights are halogen spots but they are usually off when I work. I just use a small desk lamp and my mole eyes.

I wouldn't worry too much about light right now. You have other issues to tackle and it looks like you may need power.

Roger that.