New Setup; What would you do?

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NByz

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Hi All,

Looking for some advice on a new setup. It's been several years since I've done in-home recording, so I'd like to know what's the latest. So far I have:

A Les Paul Studio Electric Guitar
A Larivee acoustic (with acoustic pickup, but I'd like to be able to mic it eventually)
A cecilio electric cello
A good PC (i7 w/ 16 gbs of DDR3 ram; usb inputs and full size card slots if a card is necessary)
A Microsoft Surface Pro
(OK, I don't have it yet, but I was planning on getting it in the new year; I was hoping there might be a midi keyboard type app for it that I could use as an input to the recording software)


I was hoping for some recommendations on:

1) Digital recording input device for the electric instruments and, eventually, for a microphone input for the acoustic

- Multitrack recording, so, for example, I could record from a midi input keyboard, and multiple analog tracks at the same time, would be nice
- I used to use a Yamaho 01V. It was way overkill for what I'm looking for now.
- I'm not sure what I'm willing to spend, but I'd expect it would be a couple hundred dollars
- Space is important! I'm in a small apartment.

2) Recording and music writing software

- I'd like to be able to easily write in sheet music and tab
- I used to use Cakewalk Sonar Producer Edition, but the HDD that had my old files no longer works so reverse compatibility is not necessary. I'm looking for something similar, but preferably more user friendly
- If it could work easily with the Input Device above, that would be excellent

3) A Midi input device like a keyboarrd

- I used to use a full-sized synth, and would be interested in one of those mini-keyboards if there's a good option out there. Preferably it's highly compatible with 1) and 2) above
- If a Windows 8 app that can act as a Keyboard-like input device exists, that would be great.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Trevor
 
With the GREATEST respect Trevor...
TWO HUNDRED BUCKS?! And you are contemplating a Surface! (don't BTW, no audio hardware support as yet.See Sound on Sound Jan13)

$200 is going to get you a passing decent mic, a 3mtr cable and a stand. $500 will get you a passing decent multitrack audio interface.

There is "another way" s'no cheaper but you could get an M-Audio 1010lt PCI card and mixer. Make sure the latter has direct outs or inserts. Considering your large instrumental collection a mixer might be a more flexible option.

Dave.
 
Maybe the OP removed the $200 reference, I don't see it ...

Go slow in buying equipment, you'll quickly get in over your head or get stuff you don't need.

Step 1: audio interface. What is the maximum number of simultaneous tracks you will want to record at one time? You can get a 2-track AI for $150 (less if you buy used).

Step 2: DAW (recording software). Many interfaces come bundled with a LE (Limited Edition) DAW. Try it out. I'll recommend downloading Reaper. You can try out the full-featured version, and it's only $60 to register. Step 2.5: music-writing software - don't know anything about this, is this high on your priority list? It isn't with 99% of home recordists these days - the only real purpose for printed music scores is for other musicians to perform your music (and they obviously need to be able to sight read).

Step 3, 4, 5: Headphones (for tracking); microphone (plus cable plus stand, plus pop filter if you will be recording vocals); monitors.

Step 6: Midi keyboard - almost every stand-alone keyboard these days has MIDI capability (and built-in sounds). MIDI keyboard controllers have ONLY midi capability, you still need virtual instruments to make sound.
 
mjbphotos said:
Maybe the OP removed the $200 reference, I don't see it ...

Go slow in buying equipment, you'll quickly get in over your head or get stuff you don't need.

Step 1: audio interface. What is the maximum number of simultaneous tracks you will want to record at one time? You can get a 2-track AI for $150 (less if you buy used).

Step 2: DAW (recording software). Many interfaces come bundled with a LE (Limited Edition) DAW. Try it out. I'll recommend downloading Reaper. You can try out the full-featured version, and it's only $60 to register. Step 2.5: music-writing software - don't know anything about this, is this high on your priority list? It isn't with 99% of home recordists these days - the only real purpose for printed music scores is for other musicians to perform your music (and they obviously need to be able to sight read).

Step 3, 4, 5: Headphones (for tracking); microphone (plus cable plus stand, plus pop filter if you will be recording vocals); monitors.

Step 6: Midi keyboard - almost every stand-alone keyboard these days has MIDI capability (and built-in sounds). MIDI keyboard controllers have ONLY midi capability, you still need virtual instruments to make sound.
Click to expand...

No still there Mike..." I'm not sure what I'm willing to spend, but I'd expect it would be a couple hundred dollars"

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
No still there Mike..." I'm not sure what I'm willing to spend, but I'd expect it would be a couple hundred dollars"

Dave.
Click to expand...

I missed it, but $200 for a 2-channel audio interface (that's where the $ reference is) will work. :)
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input

1) Audio InterfaceYes the "couple of hundred dollars" reference was just to the audio input device and it's flexible. I feel like all I'd need would be to record two audio channels at the same time (sometimes recording a single instrument stereo), but, now that I think about it, having a 16 channel mixer (01v) did come in handy quite a bit back in the day. It's also nice to be able to switch back and forth between instruments without unplugging a bunch of stuff.

Also, the fact that it acted as a midi input/controller was super great. I used it with an full sized synth. Although I don't think I have space for a full synth, I'd like something to be able to record midi and to tap out percussion etc.

So let's say I'm looking for 2-4 analog input, preferably with at least one 48 volt phantom for a future microphone upgrade, and preferably something that will act as a midi input.

I'm open to the Audio card + mixer approach (that's what I had before), but it seems like it would end up being much more expensive.

I guess I should mention that I also have a POD XT with USB connector, but I found that difficult to record with.

(I'm doing some searching around, but I'm frankly a little overwhelmed by the options right now...)


Can anyone recommend an interface with these capabilities (with or without a DAW software package)?


2) DAW Yes, being able to write and view music (in sheet or tab format) and/or record and playback midi is important to me. I am getting a little better at sight reading sheet music, but I can certainly sight read tab. I like to be able to either write or midi-record a piece, then adjust it a bit as an accompaniment, then play that bit on the guitar.

Maybe I'm not describing it quite right. I see that Reaper has a Midi editor and even a "scale finder" for it. Being able to display those notes as sheet music or tab (so I can play along and write increasingly complicated accompaniments) is all I'm looking for. I dug through the user manual but didn't quite see that.

I got used to doing this through Sonar, but found the interface a little clunky at times. I figured since I don't have any of my old files, I could start anywhere I wanted.


3, 4, 5) Misc I already have a set of Sennheiser HD 280s and many various cables and connectors etc. My dad has a mic stand that I can borrow, but I'm OK recording the acoustic through the pickup right now. I'll get a mic later. I can live without extremely high quality studio monitors for now; My PC has a 5-piece quality speaker set (with sub) that isn't the flattest in the world, but it's OK. I do most recording through the headphones and the speakers will do for mixing.

6) MIDI Keyboard I'm surprised to find many under $100... I guess I'm mainly looking for one that would work well and easily with numbers 1) and 2) above. For example, that the input is fast enough that the PC could be the virtual instrument and I could monitor it via the headphone out.


I apologize if I'm not explaining all of this too well... I just... need... a combination of these things that works together easily, so once I set it up, I have great instrument voices (especially drums) that I can write ahead of time (or play in real time via a keyboard) and easy recording of the instruments.

The only setup I've ever used before is the following, and I may be overly biased towards it. I am trying to emulate it inexpensively though:


full-sized yamaha synth -> yamaha 01v (as the junction for midi and all of the audio inputs and outputs) -> PCI card -> PC with Sonar Cakewalk Producer Edition
 
mjbphotos said:
I missed it, but $200 for a 2-channel audio interface (that's where the $ reference is) will work. :)
Click to expand...

Well I confess I didn't read it that way. I got "multitrack" and "two hundred dollars" ?

Even if the OP meant a 2 chann' AI he can't the whole recording shooting match for that.

Dave.
 
Thanks for clearing that up NB! ....This.

Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 USB Interface at zZounds
This would give you 2 mic (with +48V)/line/instrument inputs, Two further line inputs, so you have discrete 4 track analogue recording. S/PDIF in and out and MIDI in and out.

It comes with a load of software and samples and Cubase LE5 which DOES have notation software, how sophisticated I cannot tell you but it boggles this old bottle jockey!

As funds permit you could add a $50 mixer to the extra line inputs, you get no more tracks but it would mean you can leave stuff plugged up and just whack up the appropriate fader.

Dave.
 
That interface looks great! I think... I'm going to get it.

And I have watched some videos on Cubase 6 and it seems like it covers everything that Sonar did. The "Score Editor" is what I was looking for. It says it does guitar tab and I've seen some forum posts discussing it, but haven't seen a screenshot... I'm sure it does.

After a little googling I haven't found a really good post describing the difference between Cubase 6 LE and 6 Full, except to say full has "more features." Most people seem to think LE is not seriously hampered but no one is too descriptive. If anyone has any tips on "annoying things that you don't get in LE" or "Reasons you'd like to find a way to get to Cubase 7 instead of 6" that would be appreciated.

My PC is only USB 2.0. Is that going to be enough throughput for high-quality multitrack recording and simultaneous headphone monitoring? (Maybe I'm overthinking it here...)

Also, it looks like that same zzounds site has USB midi interfaces for ~ $30. Is there much to know about them? Can a simple midi keyboard and USB midi interface, plugged into a computer, with cubase plugins, give you nearly any synth voice you want? Is there any advantage to having the MIDI interface bundled with the audio interface?


Thanks again for this suggestion, ecc


edit: Ignore my last. I see in your description (and the one on the site) that the interface has onboard midi I/O. The ports must be on the back; I didn't see them. Thanks again.
 
You can download Cubase Elements 6 and run it for free (for 30 days I think) then buy it if you like. Pretty sure they all do tab but you might like to look at "Finale Music". They have a range of notation products all of which used to be downloadable for trial.

Your computer will be fine! It has such massive overkill it could probably run a Ka6 on each of its usb ports if the software allowed (actually Samplitude could do that!).

MIDI keyboards: You worked it out! Still, bit of general info. All "dumb" kbds are usb these day and that is the way to go. It is worth however finding one that has an additional MIDI out since this allows you to drive another MIDI device or, as we do, another computer. (I do not see why, thinking about it, I could not have my Evolution running Cubase as a usb MIDI in and my KA6 fed from the DIN out as another? 32 MIDI channels?)

As for MIDI "sounds" yes, the world is your oyster! In addition to the synth in Cubase you will have Kontact Player from NI and then there is terabytes of free stuff on'web and on magazine freebie DVDs ( but WHY are 99.9% of them bloody B&D?!!!)

Dave.
 
Awesome, thanks Dave.

I ordered the KA6 this afternoon. It comes with "Komplete Elements" (over 3 Gb of Virtual Instruments from NI). It also comes with the latest "Guitar Rig" if purchased on or before Dec 31st (whew!)

I think I'll let the actual product be my Cubase trial!

Thanks for the tip on a USB keyboard. I don't know why I was locked in on MIDI; of course USB would be the way things are now... I think I'll hold off on selecting the keyboard until I start running into a wall on what I need to do. Also, I'm sure I'll start to get an idea of the kind of control surfaces which might be useful in, and work with, Cubase.

I see they've come up with an IPAD app for control as well as a more fully featured one. Also some third party ones...

I'm sticking with the Surface Pro in the new year though (It's mostly for work). These IPad and Android apps are a step in the right direction though.

Thanks again,
 
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