M
Muckelroy
Member
It's the whole "getting it running up to spec" part that many people, with rediculous amounts of cash, are willing to bypass. (via a nice pretty penny.)
NEW OTARI 2, 4 and 8 track recorders!! OTARI steps up production of multitracks!
FALKEN
*************************
people with that kind of cash who are running studios as a business will buy and old machine and pay a good tech to bring it up to speed for them.
I say that if a new machine were to be made it would have to be made very cheaply, but easy to fix and maintain (like toyotas), with interchangeable headstacks.
I say that if a new machine were to be made it would have to be made very cheaply, but easy to fix and maintain (like toyotas), with interchangeable headstacks.
M
Muckelroy
Member
FALKEN said:
AMEN!!
Then again, you're paying for a "newness" factor. A "one-of-only-a-few-made-in-the-new-millinium" factor.
think about it. that's kind of a cool thing to say.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
With all due respect, bringing a 20, 25 or 30 year old machine to TRUE factory spec entails more than your typical calibration / alignment. You'd have to replace many electronic components, including a relap or replacement of heads, lifters and guides, not to mention potential solder joint problems, a total restoration frankly. While this may seem to you as picking at straws, gradual failure on those older machines is never far away. It is not possible to have factory spec'd performance from decades old electronics, not only due to age and wear but god knows what environments they were run or stored in.
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cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
The Ghost of FM said:
Jeff, I received the same letter from Otari. Seems they also forwarded it (and their response) to a bunch of other individuals. Don't worry about you "staining" my "honor" on this matter.
Hey, you were just looking out for our best interest. 
I also received a reply from trycho.com and here's a copy:
He did not answer my question as to how he was affiliated with Otari but it's obvious he wanted to be a "middle" person in all of this, or sumthin'. Frankly, it'd be best, I think, to just contact Otari direct, as I did, and order through them.
I personally like the wider track format that the 1/2" 4 track delivers. Thankfully I have really no dire need for more tracks than that and truthfully I'd pick this uncompromising high fidelity format over more tracks on the same width of tape.
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Daniel,
By the sounds of it, Trycho is indeed not an authorized Otari retailer, otherwise Otari would not have asked them to remove their company's offerings from their web-site.
If Otari is selling direct to the public, which is a bit of a distasteful thing to do in my opinion, it would indeed be wise to deal with them directly as that way you'd only be paying retail as apposed to paying more then retail going through Trycho because they're not getting them at dealer cost because they are not authorized dealers.
Which Otari did you purchase or order?
How long were you told that you'd have to wait for it?
Cheers!
By the sounds of it, Trycho is indeed not an authorized Otari retailer, otherwise Otari would not have asked them to remove their company's offerings from their web-site.
If Otari is selling direct to the public, which is a bit of a distasteful thing to do in my opinion, it would indeed be wise to deal with them directly as that way you'd only be paying retail as apposed to paying more then retail going through Trycho because they're not getting them at dealer cost because they are not authorized dealers.
Which Otari did you purchase or order?
How long were you told that you'd have to wait for it?
Cheers!
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
The Ghost of FM said:
Yup, sounds about right.
If Otari is selling direct to the public, which is a bit of a distasteful thing to do in my opinion, it would indeed be wise to deal with them directly as that way you'd only be paying retail as apposed to paying more then retail going through Trycho because they're not getting them at dealer cost because they are not authorized dealers.
Just to clarify, that when you contact Otari they ask for your location, do all the quotation and detail paper work and they in turn give you the contact info of an authorized dealer from which you order. Otari does not sell direct to the public, thus the dealer costs still apply but I sure wish it had a mention of the special order recorders, on their official site.
I'm currently in talks with them. I want the 1/2" 4 track.
I'll post more info soon.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Although I must say that Otari seems to be saying (to trycho) not neccessarily to pull the MX5050 machines off of the site but rather to not have a "devoted" page to them. See:
http://www.trycho.com/trychostore/STEREO-DIGITAL-AND-ANALOG-AUDIO-RECORDERS-C413.aspx
Still, this is not too clear, as to what Otari meant and we also can't really say, for 100%, trycho is not an Authorized Otari dealer, although it seems a bit fishy. We'll have to wait and see.
http://www.trycho.com/trychostore/STEREO-DIGITAL-AND-ANALOG-AUDIO-RECORDERS-C413.aspx
Still, this is not too clear, as to what Otari meant and we also can't really say, for 100%, trycho is not an Authorized Otari dealer, although it seems a bit fishy. We'll have to wait and see.
B
Beck
Guest
Geez! That whole thing with Trycho was a strange ride, eh?
1. There they were
2. I mentioned how it would be cool if the 8-track would be available
3. Within hours Trycho showed the 8-track available
4. A few people contact Otari
5. Poof! Trycho is gone
That was like a mini-version of the rise and fall of analog in the span of a few days. I need to sit down...
1. There they were
2. I mentioned how it would be cool if the 8-track would be available
3. Within hours Trycho showed the 8-track available
4. A few people contact Otari
5. Poof! Trycho is gone
That was like a mini-version of the rise and fall of analog in the span of a few days. I need to sit down...
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Beck said:
Yup, I found that incredibly strange too.
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
According to the link that Daniel just posted, Trycho is still pimping the 8 track machine?
I guess they figure it's cool to take your ten grand and play with it for a few months until you finally call your lawyers or the FBI to get it back.
Authorized or not, these guys are scammers or incompetents...take your pick.
Cheers!
I guess they figure it's cool to take your ten grand and play with it for a few months until you finally call your lawyers or the FBI to get it back.
Authorized or not, these guys are scammers or incompetents...take your pick.
Cheers!
T
Tim Gillett
Banned
So what do we now say about the title of this thread ?
Cheers Tim
Cheers Tim
B
Beck
Guest
Tim Gillett said:
Start a new thread?
Trycho Opportunist Thieves
That should be good for a few hits.
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B
Beck
Guest
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
LOL!Beck said:Start a new thread?
Trycho Opportunist Thieves
That should be good for a few hits.
Perfect!
Cheers!
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
The Ghost of FM said:
Sadly, this feels true. I kinda feel AWFUL for bringing this thread to life.
Take out the "8 track" bit and the mention of trycho and it'd be cool. Otherwise, it's embarrasing. Ok, guys, give me NEGS 'cause I probably deserve it.
Apologies to one and all.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Well, it's funny that you mention this. Maybe we can steer this thread in a respectable direction.cjacek said:
I might be in line to acquire a used 5050 MkIII-8 exactly like pictured at the start of this thread for practically free (if the guy I'd be getting it from doesn't decide to keep it for himself.) As it has spent it's life in the environment-controlled control room of a hi-tech museum theater, it has been kept in good shape and has probably spent the last 15 years practically unused because the theater moved to other production and playback formats long ago.
It can use an alignment, I'm sure. The museum says the "motors went out" but neither I nor they know if that means the belts are shot or the motors are shot (I'm hoping belts onoy
) And I wouldn't be suprised if the heads are worn and need refurb or replacement. But considering the thing would be for all intents and purposes free, or at least so cheap as to be painfully ridiculous (like the CEO that pays himself a salary of $1 ), I'd consider taking off their hands and having it refurbed and still coming out way ahead of the deal.The question I have is whether there are any recommendations of *where* to have it referbed. Is there anybody who is qualified and good and reliable at vinatge Otari refurbs?
Then again, considering the current and ever-declining state of analog tape for those of us who do not already have squirrled-away stocks of the good stuff, I gotta wonder if it's worth refurbishing that far. It's just hard for this old Bohok and old-school old-timer to pass up an opportunity for a seeming bargain.
Tips, thoughts, opines?
G.
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
You have at least one thing on your side and that's that you live in a large urban center which should have a decent choice of experienced shops and technicians to give you an estimate of what would be required to get that unit back up to factory spec or as close to it as possible considering it's age.SouthSIDE Glen said:
As for the motors, odds are the reel motors are direct drive with only the capstan being run off a belt from a third dedicated motor so depending on the logic design of the transport, you could conceivably get away with a simple belt change and solve the whole mechanical issues of the deck. Otherwise, things like fuses, power supplies and voltage regulation transistors are the most likely candidates when transports suddenly stop working. For the motors themselves to be the issue, it would have to be a case of the lubricants inside the motor assemblies gunking up and seizing the motors which might involve time consuming work to take them apart and recondition the brushes, bearings and anything else in there that wore out or shorted.
As for the heads, guides, lifters and pinch roller, depending on the mileage and wear, it could be anywhere from a simple turn of the parts to a complete re-lapping of all the heads and the unavoidable recalibration.
expect to spend anywhere from 400 bucks to a gee note to get it back to a fully usable status.
Cheers!
B
Beck
Guest
Heya Glen,
In addition to the good advice from Jeff...
I’ve seen the MX5050-8 in a few amusement parks, planetariums, etc. It may be just fine depending on how regularly it was used. Your best bet is to get a hold of the maintenance records or talk to someone that knows. Even if it was heavily used it may have been well maintained… maybe even new heads at some point… you never know.
Sitting idle for long periods can be worse than regular moderate use. Lubrication pools and moving parts tend to freeze in place. Well freeze is probably too strong a word, but surface rust and oxidation can creep in, so it may need a good going over in that department.
Pinch roller and capstan belt will have to be replaced if it sat in storage for that long. Both reel motors going bad at the same time is rare, so I would suspect the belt first. But if they are noisy or wont rewind/fast forward they could have worn bearings, burnt windings, etc.
The Otaris also have known issues with the channel relays because they aren’t sealed. Expect to have to replace or take them apart and clean them if its been sitting idle.
Don’t worry about tape supply… it’s going to be around for a long time. Even if all the tape manufacturers go bust tomorrow there is enough out there now to keep us going for 20 years at least. I’m buying sealed new-old-stock that’s 20 years old already. The way I see it, the ½” RMGI 911 that’s selling for $60.00+ now will be selling for $20.00 still sealed 10 years from now.
I feel good about it, and am rather enjoying our little analog club. It’s still a bit bigger than MENSA and IMO a lot more fun.
Anyway, if you’re getting that Otari for almost nothing and feel adventurous, I say what the hell… you’ll get something out of it, whether a working machine or more knowledge and skills for the next Otari 8-track that comes along, and there are a lot of them.
~Tim
In addition to the good advice from Jeff...
I’ve seen the MX5050-8 in a few amusement parks, planetariums, etc. It may be just fine depending on how regularly it was used. Your best bet is to get a hold of the maintenance records or talk to someone that knows. Even if it was heavily used it may have been well maintained… maybe even new heads at some point… you never know.
Sitting idle for long periods can be worse than regular moderate use. Lubrication pools and moving parts tend to freeze in place. Well freeze is probably too strong a word, but surface rust and oxidation can creep in, so it may need a good going over in that department.
Pinch roller and capstan belt will have to be replaced if it sat in storage for that long. Both reel motors going bad at the same time is rare, so I would suspect the belt first. But if they are noisy or wont rewind/fast forward they could have worn bearings, burnt windings, etc.
The Otaris also have known issues with the channel relays because they aren’t sealed. Expect to have to replace or take them apart and clean them if its been sitting idle.
Don’t worry about tape supply… it’s going to be around for a long time. Even if all the tape manufacturers go bust tomorrow there is enough out there now to keep us going for 20 years at least. I’m buying sealed new-old-stock that’s 20 years old already. The way I see it, the ½” RMGI 911 that’s selling for $60.00+ now will be selling for $20.00 still sealed 10 years from now.
I feel good about it, and am rather enjoying our little analog club. It’s still a bit bigger than MENSA and IMO a lot more fun.Anyway, if you’re getting that Otari for almost nothing and feel adventurous, I say what the hell… you’ll get something out of it, whether a working machine or more knowledge and skills for the next Otari 8-track that comes along, and there are a lot of them.
~Tim
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Tim and Ghost, thanks for the replys. This one was used in the control room of a museum's Omnimax theater, which is temperature and humidity controlled, and the equipment maintined very well. One of my regular guitarist buddys (and one of the best session players in the city IMHO) whom I've known forever also happens to be the head projectionist/technician there. He's the one who might wind up with the deck instead of me, but either way the issues are the same and either way we'll both probably wind up using it anywayBeck said:
. I can guarantee that the machine has been well taken care of, but also that the heads are still original.It's maybe a bit of an overstatement that the machine has been idle for 15 years, they just have not used it for the actual show use for maybe that long. But he has used it for the occasional special project and for some basic tracking from time to time over that period; it's jut not been a full-time machine. The last time I worked with it on a project there a few years ago the capstan/rollers seemed to be in rather good shape. It was difficult to determine the shape of the heads, frankly, because the tape stock they had on hand at the time was rusting on the reels as I looked at it. It was hard for me to tell if the somewhat muted response and higher than expected track bleed I experienced at the time was because of tape or heads or both. I forget how many hours wre on the machine, but I remember having suspicions that the heads might have possibly needed some work.
It finally died a year or two ago to the best of my recollection and has been in storage ever since. It just came up in casual conversation last week, and he said that "the motors died" but that he had not bothered to open it up to see why they died at all. I'll have to ask him a few follow up questions on the exact symptoms leading up to the "death" and the nature of the "death" itself. But that'll have to wait until he comes back from a fishing trip in another week or so.
I was hoping maybe there was a known Otari referb guru that someone could recommend...if he were in the Chicago area that would be even peachier
.