K
K-dub
Well-known member
Nice and clean - is my first impression. You might want to listen to American HiFi to get an idea of a model to follow for this type of mix.
You've bunched the middle. Take the BGVs and get them all off wide L/R. Try to have your gits fall in and around the 10 and 2 o'clock range off center. That'll clear the pocket in the middle for the lead vocal. Take half of the background vocals and get them 100% left and the other half 100% right. Send them to a sub-bus. Aux the sub to a wide flange (or chorus/delay) to thicken. That'll "beef the wings" and add richness/thickness. Don't overdo the aux send or you'll get a flange wash. You want it to thicken, not swirl.
Levels between the parts are pretty close ... but you can back the stringed instruments into the drums a little more. Gits are forward. Rock IS DRUMS. Don't allow the midrange gits to obfuscate clarity of the drums. That ride cymbal is a bit WTF(?) soft btw ... which doesn't sound natural. It sounds like the drummer went lame in that arm all of a sudden. Kick can come up to push it just a little more as well. Remember that the push/pull of the kick/snare drives the piece. The bass should sit ever so slightly on top of the two and join in the drive.
You're not far off - and you've really good source to work with. Nice job tracking this.
You've bunched the middle. Take the BGVs and get them all off wide L/R. Try to have your gits fall in and around the 10 and 2 o'clock range off center. That'll clear the pocket in the middle for the lead vocal. Take half of the background vocals and get them 100% left and the other half 100% right. Send them to a sub-bus. Aux the sub to a wide flange (or chorus/delay) to thicken. That'll "beef the wings" and add richness/thickness. Don't overdo the aux send or you'll get a flange wash. You want it to thicken, not swirl.
Levels between the parts are pretty close ... but you can back the stringed instruments into the drums a little more. Gits are forward. Rock IS DRUMS. Don't allow the midrange gits to obfuscate clarity of the drums. That ride cymbal is a bit WTF(?) soft btw ... which doesn't sound natural. It sounds like the drummer went lame in that arm all of a sudden. Kick can come up to push it just a little more as well. Remember that the push/pull of the kick/snare drives the piece. The bass should sit ever so slightly on top of the two and join in the drive.
You're not far off - and you've really good source to work with. Nice job tracking this.
dobro
Well-known member
On earbuds:
* The kick is fine, I think.
* Listened to 'Sheena is a Punk Rocker'. (It moves similarly to yours and the bass drives that one, too.) Your mix is darker. Your bass is more prominent. Your mix sounds better. But I understand why you're wondering about the bass.
* The bass 'solo' in the break sounds perfect to me. If you cut some lows from the bass, it'll affect that. But if you automated the bass track so that its level was a touch lower during the verses, it wouldn't dominate as powerfully as it does now. That would be the traditional/conservative choice. Leaving it like it is would be the 'making a statement' choice.
* If I was going to send this one to an ME, I'd leave stuff in rather than take stuff out. Leave it to the ME.
Hope this helps.
Papanate
Well-known member
Fantastic - I might shorten the opening a bit - but the song is great.
dobro
Well-known member
Flyguitarfish
Active member
Awesome, thank you!On earbuds:
* The kick is fine, I think.
* Listened to 'Sheena is a Punk Rocker'. (It moves similarly to yours and the bass drives that one, too.) Your mix is darker. Your bass is more prominent. Your mix sounds better. But I understand why you're wondering about the bass.
* The bass 'solo' in the break sounds perfect to me. If you cut some lows from the bass, it'll affect that. But if you automated the bass track so that its level was a touch lower during the verses, it wouldn't dominate as powerfully as it does now. That would be the traditional/conservative choice. Leaving it like it is would be the 'making a statement' choice.
* If I was going to send this one to an ME, I'd leave stuff in rather than take stuff out. Leave it to the ME.
Hope this helps.
Such an important point about which reference track I’m aiming for. I like that you looked up the Ramones!
Here’s one of the reference tracks I like to use for this genre. Mine is definitely more bassy. Maybe split the difference? Jason Livermore’s mixes are awesome!
Band: Face to Face
Song: Blanked Out
Flyguitarfish
Active member
@BTStudio @RFR @dobro @Papanate @K-dub et al.
Ok, so I tried to clean it up even more. Balance L and R guitar levels. Not as bassy (too aggressive bass cut?); feels cleaner and more in line with mixes of this genre.
I present to you…Mix 6
Ok, so I tried to clean it up even more. Balance L and R guitar levels. Not as bassy (too aggressive bass cut?); feels cleaner and more in line with mixes of this genre.
I present to you…Mix 6
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Thekesslerboy
Member
I like this a lot. It reminds me of something like All The Small Things. Not quite that one but I can't put my finger on it. 90s, post grunge, tuneful alternative stuff. I do think the intro is far too long though. A full minute before the vocals come in. Around the 28 second mark sounds a more natural point, but possibly even earlier.
I do get it and I bet the slowly escalating intro is fun to play, with one more added guitar line coming in every four bars. I'm prone to the same, but I feel this could be snipped in half here, to keep the radio listener from dialling away! The song is fairly short already so nothing wrong with adding that escalating part to the end as an outro maybe. I just feel it's crucial to not let the listener drift away while waiting for the vocals.
I know how hard it is to let go of your favourite parts, I'm as guilty.
I do get it and I bet the slowly escalating intro is fun to play, with one more added guitar line coming in every four bars. I'm prone to the same, but I feel this could be snipped in half here, to keep the radio listener from dialling away! The song is fairly short already so nothing wrong with adding that escalating part to the end as an outro maybe. I just feel it's crucial to not let the listener drift away while waiting for the vocals.
I know how hard it is to let go of your favourite parts, I'm as guilty.
Flyguitarfish
Active member
I generally agree and definitely understand what you’re saying!
I usually write songs that have short intros and jump right into the vocals. I specifically wrote this one as a departure for the middle of my band’s set, not as a radio tune. We’re not a drawn out “jammy” band. Everything is fairly concise and planned out. I think this tune will work well live with plenty for the audience to see for that extra 30 seconds!
Have you listened to Angels & Airwaves? This is another influence of mine. Check out “the Adventure”. It’s a little along those lines. Such a great tune…way better than mine so maybe less boring?!
Thekesslerboy
Member
Ah, that's totally different then. In a live setting you have the all the freedom in the world to draw the audience in. Long intros are something I'm a big fan of, and that song you sent also has a good one. Probably my favourite would be The Kiss by The Cure or Three Days by Jane's Addiction.
K
K-dub
Well-known member
Oh yeah - THERE YOU GO!
You NAILED it. Nice work.
There's exactly the spread and movement to the mix that I envisioned.
Now perhaps just a hair back on the limiter until the glue remains, but the harsh mids disappear and the the edges of the sound round out. It's not a lot of pull back - just wait for the mids (a.k.a. "honk") to soften while you can still hear the definition. It's also known as the "wince factor". It's there - even if it is slight.
Flyguitarfish
Active member
Thanks!
Tell me more about the limiter/mids thing. Never heard about that. Are you talking about the limiter on the master? I let it barely touch the mix. Or just all the compression on all the vocals? And the mids increase? So much to learn.
R
RFR
Well-known member
Great! Excellent. It’s a wrap!
K
K-dub
Well-known member
Google "compression" and "midrange bloom". It will explain it in far more depth than I can muster in short form text format. Put simply, when things get squashed, the midrange pokes out more prominently, because all things being equal, the human ear is more sensitive to that region of frequencies.
But yes - where it is applied needs to be rolled back a hair. When one knows what to listen for, it's noticeable to those who can hear it. I'm hearing the honk in the vocals. There's no reason to compress electric guitars. Their sound is compressed already as is.
BTStudio
Well-known member
This is really well done.
R
RFR
Well-known member
Once, just once, my last band got some airplay on the radio.
We did an interview and got two songs played. But it was only a college station. The only reason we pulled that off was because the drummer knew the host and she was a fan of the band.
But outside of circumstances like that, how many of us have a hope in hell of getting AirPlay or any significant streaming?
What we do have is opportunities to go out and play live.
I think the intro is very well done. Throw that song into the middle of the set and no one will leave or ‘turn the dial’….they will be grooving with it.
Despite not being too much of a punk genre fan, your song (even with the ‘long’ intro) won me over.
I’ll be listening to future offerings.
K
K-dub
Well-known member
I have been played (over the years) on local music stations - both college and commercial. I'm still being played on college stations. Largely this is because my college roommate was a big fan of my music and happened to be a DJ. He worked w/ Howard Stern in Hartford at WCCC back when Howard was breaking into the biz. Howard actually "borrowed" a lot of his schtick from my roommate and ran with it. They remained friends. I met Howard several times accordingly. I still don't listen to him.
Fortunately, I didn't quit my day job.
Until I did, though, retire - and started a band to play original music live.
To your point, we settled on a 2:1 ratio that worked really well - two cover tunes to one original. We found that playing all originals got old quick. We could tell as the seats would empty when we played our stuff every song. The two to one ratio (sometimes 3:1) kept folks in the venue. We had 50 gigs booked for 2020 - but we all know what happened then.