new mix of "Deal" still needs work - constructive criticism required!

[Simes]

Heya kids,

A couple of weeks back I got some encouraging feedback and constructive criticism about my track "A Slight Case Of..." - also mention was made of improving the vocal tracks in "Deal". Low and behold, I've gone and recut the vocals, but this tune is prooving mighty tough to mix. I'd appreciate any suggestions as to blending this beast a little better.

The current mix can be found at http://mp3.com/ulcerate - and the track is the second one down called "Deal".

My ears hope you can assist.

Simon
Ulcerate

 

[Royston]

The Song "Deal"

Although I'm not a professional, I am an excellent critic!

I found the song quite bass heavy and the vocals a trite loud in the mix. There was a lot of extreme reverb on the voals that might sound a little clearer if the reverb was more subtle. I enjoyed the song though it reminded me of some of the early 90's "shoegazer" type bands like "Catherine Wheel" and "Ride". May I ask what country and city you guys are based in?

 

[Simes]

An excellent critic indeed!

I was looking for deeper problems with the mix itself, but amazing what a couple of changes can do to make the blend better.

I dropped the bassline about 5db in the mix and also dropped all the vocal tracks around 3db each, depending on the section, there's a little layering going on, but the result is better than it was. I've posted that to the mp3.com site - http://mp3.com/ulcerate and it should be live sometime today.

Someone at a review site who does a bit of licensing work for film soundtracks actually asked me to put together a drumless version of the track - so I took up the challenge and subsequently dropped the vocals as well. The resulting track is a spacey remix with reminds me of a poor man's Sonic Youth meets Swans meets Dirty 3. The loss of the groove and the vocals exposed some flaws in the guitar tracks, but I like that!

It's also now up the http://mp3.com/ulcerate site and it's called the Deal (Instrumental Grooveless Remix).

Thanks again for the constructive input - a little bit goes a long way.

Simon

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Nice song... has that airy, ambient feel... very appropriate background noises...

Now for the tough stuff... you've got a funky, gritty low-frequency rasping at the very beginning of the tune (before the drums kick in)... sound very much like HiFi VHS modulation noise... major phase problems on the drum mix - there is no concept of a drumkit spread out in front of you - each drum sound is murky and indistinct - imaging is non-existent.

The kick is WAY too prominent in the mix and it's not interacting with the bass in any way. Both the kick and bass are supposed to be working together to provide a solid backbeat. You don't mention your gear list but if you have the capability, you want to adjust separate tone qualities on kick and bass, then establish their respective relative levels. Send the 2 signals to a submix and from that point on, treat them in the mix as if they were a single instrument.

Somebody made a comment on the voice effect - the effect itself is appropriate and adds a distinctive tone to the vocal, but the effect is just too over the top... less is more...

All in all, good composition, nice stuff happening - just need to work on your mixing skills.

Bruce

 

[Simes]

Bruce,

You're a winner my friend. Precisely what I'm looking for in your thoughts. To cover your points:

Noise in intro - that's actually intended It's a drum-synth rumbley-loopy thing. Nice analysis on what you assessed as a problem though

Vocal effects - already picked up on that one this morning, and dropped the effect level. There are four tracks of vocals on this tune. One dry, one with a delay and slight pitch shift panned to the left, the second with a seperate delay and panned to the right, and the last is a little sig vocal effect I use on all my tracks where I take a copy of the original vocal track and run it thru a filter which simulates the frequencies as if you were singing thru a telephone.

Will try a sub-mix on the bass/drums. I may have to play with the eq on the drums, as it's actually a combined loop extracted from a sample cd (it's actually Keith LeBlanc from Tackhead).

As to gear, some may say I've overachieved already with this stuff as it's all cheap (but decent) gear. Everything is recorded to PC, via an SB Live soundcard. Recording package used is Cool Edit Pro v1.2, guitar/bass signals are run through respective bass & guitar POD units, then into my baby Behringer Eurorack mixers (I have two). The vocals are recorded on a Rode NT-1 using the mic pre's from the mixer and also a little psuedo-tube warmth from the POD. The various noises and drum loops are extracted from sample cd's and also a lot of stuff I collate myself, then mutated via Cool Edit Pro. I have an amazing recording of my central heating system here somewhere

Will try an apply some of the techniques described, then post the results.

Thanks again....much appreciated

Simon
Ulcerate - http://mp3.com/ulcerate

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

As I was posting, it occurred to me that your "intro effect" was intentional, but from a production point of view (and this is my personal opinion, of course - which means shit! ) - an effect that sounds too much like an unwanted noise, is not really doing any service to your song.... for example, if you get a really clean vocal, but then run it thru a mild overdrive and it distorts on the peaks in manner that emulates a badly recorded vocal, then that track suddenly becomes "a badly recorded vocal", intentional or not -- an effect that sounds too much like noise, as opposed to effect, is "noise" in the true sense of the word.

By hey... I don't want to subdue your creativity!!!

Bruce

 

[Simes]

A valid point nevertheless. One that made me ask myself the question, "does this 4 bars of doppley-bassy-humpy-bit actually add anything to the track?" and the after removing the said part, I answered "no".

That particular part does serve it's purpose in the instrumental version, as there is no groove to speak of, and ties it together a little more, but in the original track, it didn't add anything at all, if anything - I made an addition by subtraction.

Alas, the mix is once again uploaded to http://mp3.com/ulcerate and should be live on the site by tonight.

Much appreciated.

Now I've got to get to work on some bugs in some other mixes.....whee!

Simon
Ulcerate - http://mp3.com/ulcerate