New microphone builds, recommendations?

[cwujek]

So, I have the time and the money all set aside for building a few microphones, thus I am looking for some good recommendations. I intended to build two of the mics I posted in the attachment, it was posted on here before by a member with good results, so I figured I would try it out as it really won't cost too much. Otherwise, I am looking for some good schematics or projects that members have tried. The technical know-how is there, as I have built projects like this in the past, and amplifiers, tube amps, pedals for guitar, ect. I will be running these mics through my DMP3, and would like to be able to record acoustic and electric guitar, piano, and vocals. Not with the same mic of course, I am looking for a mix of condensers and dynamic mics. Any recommendations would be helpful. Thanks,

Chris

 

[cwujek]

Maybe I'm asking on the wrong forum? Do a lot of people here actually build mics? Is there a dedicated forum or something for people who just build there own?

Chris

 

[Minion]

That is the Desing that MSHilaroius did and it is a Very good design.....

What really makes the Curcuit good is the Type of Capsule you use and there are Many different qualities of Capsules......

Some of the Best Omni-directional Capsules are the Panasonic WM-61AY and they are only about $4 each if you can Find them but if you want to make a Cardioid Mic useing this curcuit you will have to get a Good Cardioid capsule which are much rarer and more expensive....

Here are a couple sites were you can buy Capsules.....

Omni Capsules (Like the Panasonic ones)

http://www.jlielectronics.com/prod3.htm

And you can get some very High quality Cardioid Capsules here:

http://www.transsound.com/product_e.html

If you get some of the Cardioid (Uni-Directional) capsules make sure you get the ones that have the Internal Fet cuz if you don"t you will have to change the Curcuit to accomidate the external Fet but a external Fet will usually give you better Niose performance....


Cheers


PS: I have small Curcuit Boards that use the above curcuit that are about 1 inch square, If you don"t want to do Point to point Wireing then I could sell you the Curcuit Boards for pretty cheap maybe a couple bucks each....

 

[bubbagump]

But MsHilarious used a FET. Is that a different design that he did?

As for the capsule, you can get those Panasonic capsules for a little over $2 each from Digikey.

 

[mshilarious]

But MsHilarious used a FET. Is that a different design that he did?

As for the capsule, you can get those Panasonic capsules for a little over $2 each from Digikey.

It's the MSH-1 design, the 1A uses another FET.

 

[bubbagump]

Dig.


EDIT: See this thread where I built an MSH1A. Link

 

[cwujek]

That is the Desing that MSHilaroius did and it is a Very good design.....

What really makes the Curcuit good is the Type of Capsule you use and there are Many different qualities of Capsules......

Some of the Best Omni-directional Capsules are the Panasonic WM-61AY and they are only about $4 each if you can Find them but if you want to make a Cardioid Mic useing this curcuit you will have to get a Good Cardioid capsule which are much rarer and more expensive....

Here are a couple sites were you can buy Capsules.....

Omni Capsules (Like the Panasonic ones)

http://www.jlielectronics.com/prod3.htm

And you can get some very High quality Cardioid Capsules here:

http://www.transsound.com/product_e.html

If you get some of the Cardioid (Uni-Directional) capsules make sure you get the ones that have the Internal Fet cuz if you don"t you will have to change the Curcuit to accomidate the external Fet but a external Fet will usually give you better Niose performance....


Cheers


PS: I have small Curcuit Boards that use the above curcuit that are about 1 inch square, If you don"t want to do Point to point Wireing then I could sell you the Curcuit Boards for pretty cheap maybe a couple bucks each....

Ok, thanks for the info! I was intending to buy a few Panasonic WM-61AY from Digikey, but I would also like to get some cardioid capsules to mess with them too. I was going to build these in a Nuetrik XRL connector, but if I used a cardioid capsule, what would I want to use (the capsule would be too big correct?)? Would it still fit? I went to the transound web page, and I really am not sure which product I would want to get for this project. I would be happy to organize a group buy, I am going on vacation tommorow, but I will would be happy to get a bunch to save on shipping and then sell to anyone interested. I just need to know which one to get. Thanks for all the help so far,

Chris

edit: also, should I go for the version I originally posted, or the 1A version?

 

[mshilarious]

Ok, thanks for the info! I was intending to buy a few Panasonic WM-61AY from Digikey, but I would also like to get some cardioid capsules to mess with them too. I was going to build these in a Nuetrik XRL connector, but if I used a cardioid capsule, what would I want to use (the capsule would be too big correct?)? Would it still fit? I went to the transound web page, and I really am not sure which product I would want to get for this project. I would be happy to organize a group buy, I am going on vacation tommorow, but I will would be happy to get a bunch to save on shipping and then sell to anyone interested. I just need to know which one to get. Thanks for all the help so far,

Chris

edit: also, should I go for the version I originally posted, or the 1A version?

The 6mm cardioid capsules will fit same as WM61A, larger capsules will not fit an XLR. I don't want to discourage anybody from building these (after all I did publish the schematic), but be warned it takes a few tries to really figure out how to fit everything inside. Order parts accordingly, or find a larger case than an XLR.

 

[Minion]

Also the Cardioid Capsules will be about the same Size, The Size of the Capsule will be in the Capsules Data sheet allong with it"s Frequency responce SNR and Frequency range and the Data Sheet should also tell you if the Capsule has an Internal Fet or if you have to use an external Fet..If you go into the Broadcast quality" Mic section of the Transound site you should find the better quality Capsules there and some of them are of a Different size and Configuration but are also very good Capsules....

But I agree with MSH you should maybe find something else to build your Mics out of as an XLR is very cramped...Maybe use Copper Tubeing Or what I do is I go to the "Great Canadian Dollar Store" and Buy these Cheapo Plastic Dynamic Mics for about $3-$4 and I gut them and use the Bodies to build the Mics...These Mics also come with an XLR and an On/Off Switch which is useable...

If you are In Canada you might be able to find these, You can also use the Body of a cheapo flashlight or pretty much anything...


If you would like me to look through the Transound Site for a couple exceptionally good Looking Cardioids then let me know and I"ll have a Look for Ya...

Cheers

 

[cwujek]

If you would like me to look through the Transound Site for a couple exceptionally good Looking Cardioids then let me know and I"ll have a Look for Ya...

Cheers

Yes, that would be very much appreciated!! I am just not exactly sure which one I want out of all of them, although I do know the size, I am unsure about the ideal frequency response, and some of the other data listed. If there are a few on there you would recommend, I'll get more than one, as shipping is going to be probably the most expensive part. Also, I searched the forum and found the differance between the 1 and 1A. If its too big, I will put this in a copper tube, weld the end, and thread a Neutrik jack into one end, then use silicon sealer on the other end to suspend the capsule; so if any bigger capsules would sound ideal, feel free to recommend them. I really am also looking for some more advanced projects also, as I know I will have no problem building the MSH1A. Thanks,

Chris

 

[PhilGood]

Just a note.

Putting a cardioid capsule in a Neutrik connector will turn it omni. You need to mount it so sound can reach the back of the capsule to do the cancelation.

 

[mshilarious]

Just a note.

Putting a cardioid capsule in a Neutrik connector will turn it omni. You need to mount it so sound can reach the back of the capsule to do the cancelation.

Actually it's much worse than simply becoming an omni. The unvented chamber inside the connector creates a resonance that yields a VERY unusual response. Even if you seal the back of the capsule, the frequency response resembles nothing you'd likely want to use.

Trust me on this one . . .

 

[cwujek]

What would you recommend that I put it in then? Would a larger copper tube work? I am wondering if a certain design of the chamber is now crucial. If only I could afford my dream mic, an AT4050. I realize I could just use a cheap mic's body, I dont mind spending $25 or so for a cheap metal enclosed mic.

 

[bubbagump]

I am getting very close to fitting everything into an XLR connector. Notice MsHilarious used an XX series connector which gives an extra 1/8" which is crucial. In my own experience, I couldn't get the thing to fit in a regular X series connector. Also, the caps I used are too high to fit in the XLR connector, so I am hunting for something a bit smaller. I burnt up 3 or 4 before I got a working mic... so don't be discouraged. What I did that made the whole process A LOT easier was I sat down with graph paper and worked out what I was going to go on a 5 x 8 grid to tranlate to perf board. The perf board is space 0.1" per hole... so that is a ~0.6 x 0.9 inch board which is pretty tiny. The last thing I need to figure out is why my mics have so much less output than the ones MsHilarious makes....

 

[c7sus]

I've seen mics made by a guy with Maglight flashlight bodies and bayonet capsules.

A AA-sized Maglight body is pretty small, about as big around as an XLR connector, but easily 2-1/2 to 3 times as long.

Here's one on Ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/InnerTube-MM200...O-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ320014713104QQcmdZViewItem

 

[cwujek]

Wow, I really really like the flashlight idea. Would be really cool to build a mic in something like that, and just buy the MSH-1A (as it is soo cheap!) At the same time, I'll probably just get the MSH-1A plus the parts to build one to mess with while working on the larger one. Now, is there any large or small diaphragm tube condenser mic scheamtics recommended? I have done a LOT of work with tubes, and have access to thousands of tubes, so the tube issue is not a problem at all. I just don't seem to see many schematics around for something like this. I also intent to adapt the idea of putting this in a flashlight exactly the same as the InnerTube audio mic. Here: http://www.innertubeaudio.com/mm2000.html
Sorry if I'm changing direction, but as the MSH-1A is so cheap and easy to buy this seems like the way to go for this circuit, and I'll just buy some of the cardioid capsules to mess around with in there. Thanks for all the great help!

Chris

 

[mshilarious]

so that is a ~0.6 x 0.9 inch board which is pretty tiny.

The PCBs I had made were 0.5 x 1.1875, which exactly fits inside the XX series.

 

[mshilarious]

For all you DIYers out there, I thought I'd offer these PCBs that I decided not to use, these do fit inside the XX, but it's a tight fit, and you have to use 4mm diameter caps (10uF). Also like an idiot, even after tracing the circuit several times, I reversed pins 1 and 3 I would suggest using a larger case, drilling holes in the pads, and running leads from the XLR pins to the PCB

This PCB can actually do several variations on the basic circuit, including reconfiguring the capsule, bias to the external FET, gain in the external FET with impedance balancing, etc, also you can drop in just about any TO92 transistor you want to try as multiple pin configurations are possible This was designed for some components (like the caps) to be mounted on opposite sides . . . I will include instructions . . .

These are professional PCBs with solder mask, silkscreen, plated-thru holes . . . I had to cut them apart, so the sides are only semi-pro $2 each is less than my cost, PM me for details.

 

[bubbagump]

Are you using the 10uf caps in the MSH1As you're selling? I can't figure out why my output is so low (like 15 or 20 db less). I switched to 680ohm resistors as you had mentioned you did in another thread, but I am still using the 22uf caps. I am wondering if the caps might be the output difference.

 

[mshilarious]

Are you using the 10uf caps in the MSH1As you're selling? I can't figure out why my output is so low (like 15 or 20 db less). I switched to 680ohm resistors as you had mentioned you did in another thread, but I am still using the 22uf caps. I am wondering if the caps might be the output difference.

No, the caps make little difference. Check the polarity on the capsule, but especially the pins on the FET. Also let me know what the voltage on the power rail and FET gate are.