New mic or new strip?

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normonster

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Fun decisions!

I record vocals/acoustic guitar exclusively for now. Thinking of a new microphone with maybe a little more sizzle but have discovered tube preamps and wondering if maybe I should pickup a Neve pre with silk.

I have the standard SM’s, an NT1A and a Sm7b. The Presonus tube strip I just got really brought the Sm7b to life, though interestingly I discovered that I like the Martin through the NT1A.

Until this tube pre I was thinking about a SM27 or KSM32 but now I’m not sure I need another mic. The Neve 511 is highly praised online so now considering that instead.

Which way would you go if you were in this desirable situation? New mic or new pre?

Cheers!
 
I tend to believe that the signal chain starting with the Mic/Guitar/Bass > Preamp > Converter > etc... is the most important. i.e. starting with the Instrument/Mic. So I'd upgrade my Mic before upgrading my Pre.
 
FWIW - I have the RND 5017 and it is an *outstanding* sounding preamp. Highly recommend.
 
What about room acoustics? They're probably more important than mic choice which, in turn, is far more important than the preamp.
 
Thank you gents. Reality checks are good!

@jamesperrett It’s just my bedroom with tapestries on the walls. I’ve never thought about adding anything.
 
Its funny that a couple of years ago, Billie Eilish had the hottest song in the country done on an AT-2020. Right now, Oliver Anthony has the #1 streamed song done on an NT1A.

We obsess over gear (yeah, I do too) but in the end, it's the song that makes or breaks the recording. One of my crappy songs done with a Neve console, Neumann mics and a Lynx Aurora interface and a stack of vintage outboards would still be crap!

But, yeah, a different mic with a different flavor might give you a sound that you like, which might inspire you to do more. I think that transducers (mics/speakers/guitar pickups) are the things that have the more variability. Look at the specs and you'll see variations of 5 or 10 dB in the frequency responses. Many preamps today (maybe most) have pretty good specs for things like frequency response and distortion, like being down 0.2dB at 20kHz). Measuring a voltage and assigning it a number is pretty much a straight forward process.
 
If you take a mic, and split it into two, you can invert one and when you add them together in the mixer, you get 100% silence.
if you EQ one of the two channels, the silence is replaced with what you did with the EQ, the cut and the boosted element that no longer cancel. Sounds very strange. I’ve never tried this with any of the super-preamp. It would be interesting to see what the difference, the bit added by the device, or done better, or worse, sounds like. If anyone has a posh super preamp they love, it would be great to hear what it actually did, vs a basic decent one. I’m not sure how we’d interpret it, but the differences would be in frequency and level but would it also be the distortion components the device adds? I really don’t know.
 
Mics or Channel Strip? hard question..

The channel strip, is the poor mans slice of a expensive a$$ console, but today less consoles. more...DAW.
Go in Clean or Go in like a old school console way. with eq, filters, comp, filters. Channel Strip...?

Hardware vs PlugIns?

You already have a channel strip so you are wondering if other strips are a better high?
You would have to try like 10 of them to get a personal taste. I did that and found out some things...like its personal taste.

microphones are all over the place once you start turning the eq knobs, then one mic can be 1000 mics.
the Gold records done with NT1 or SM7b or <$400 mics....MXL 990....they all went through processing. probably a whole bunch of processing....
so AT2020....etc.... if you have a crap room, LDC will pickup more of it,....crap rooms, get up close on the mic, SM7B., RE20...then eq and slap stuff on it. Stick it up against the guitar speaker or kick drum...SM7b or RE20 again...those type mics. U47 didnt make the gold record alone, it had a big studio and a big console with big name singers and pro players and mastering speakers and tube eq fairchilds...tube compressors...so even a Real U47 in my closet with me playing wont sound like the dreamy magicdust recordings of historic sounds.So I over thought the whole $$$$ mic thing.

Ive had the KSM series, 27 $80-$100...its ok....KSM32 popular and flat, MidSize, dia.... KSM44...has it all and can be found $350-$400, used without case and stuff...probably the best and you cover everything, a well respected mic too....I'd save up for a used 44, not the 44A , its just more money for a miniscule spec of idle quiet stuff...
The 27 with eq and stuff slapped on it can sound great too, as can a MXL $99 LDC....but the 44 made me "feel" like I had a top built LDC to compare others too.
Some prefer the 32, which can be $250 without the case and things... The SM7b gets the most usage around here, on vocals and drums...even kick drum!

good luck...big question...
 
Thank you everyone for all the replies and points of consideration. Much appreciated!
 
I haven't been back here for a while, so I thought I'd necro my own thread with a happy ending. :) A lot has come and gone in the last few years, and how strange that the date there of my last post is almost exactly the same day of the year.

After many mic trials and various other gear trials I have a chain I'm really happy with now.

Pow-R Bar switched power supply, 8/8 xlr patchbay, desk mounted boom stands
DAW is Cubase Pro current version
Vocal chain is WA87re > RND Newton Channel
Guitar chain is WA84 (omni cap) > PreSonus Studio Channel
Interface is the RME Fireface UCX II, hitting a Mackie Bigknob monitor controller
Monitors are Presonus Eris 7 & Presonus Temblor T10, WA Hp among others
Mains are QSC K8.2's
Controllers are Kensington Slimblade, EditorsKeys Cubase edition, and Launchkey 25

The patchbay and UCX allow a ton of various routing options, so I always keep an SM58 and a SM57 plugged in as well for practice, on a dual mic stand. I've also added some degree of room treatment (and switched rooms). Now and then I push the signal over to my QSCs and pretend I'm playing a show. Ease of routing is so fun!

Anway, that's where I ended up and I'm pretty happy. I'm almost ready to start offering some free studio time just for fun. I'm getting decent quality of myself now, so I'm actually looking forward to working with material from someone with real talent.

If anyone has any comments or questions about any of this gear, I'm happy to put in my observations. Most interesting of all may be the comparison of the preamps, but it's probably been hashed out already.

Cheers!
 
RND Newton...
Presonus SC...
I'm curious what you think of them. How does the Presonus stand up to the RND?

To buy a 87design mic, is a busy-mental task.
I watch the YouTube's all the time, then the new87 vs old87, a lot of interest in it. obviously a classic. The WA87 is more old-lower sensitivity which would be
better for my room. With so many 87-types, how'd you choose the WA87? v1 or v2?
 
Hey Cat -

The Presonus Studio Channel, in my experience, is a really nice sounding and versatile piece of hardware. The flexibility that is built in is far superior to what is available on the Newton. The compressor on the Newton (I think) is designed to stay in a vocal/acoustic guitar kind of pocket (limited controls, no ratio adjustment or attack adjustment) whereas the PSC has a wide range for each parameter.

The EQ is probably the part that contrasts most though b/c the Newton's EQ is again super basic (shelving lows, apply mid-curve, shelving highs) but the Presonus allows you to switch Lows or Highs from shelving to peak, so you can pinpoint a frequency and enhance (this was perfect for that SM7B).

As far as the preamps, they both sound good to me, and in each case the "extra" does like nothing for my highly worn ears....tube on the Presonus is a ghost and silk on the Newton is equally indiscernible. I've noticed that the silk kicks in with a hotter source signal, I guess, but I'm whimpering around here mellow style pretty much. The main thing I've learned about preamps is that you need one. Everyone probably already knows this, but IMO every bedroom studio should have an SM57 in front of a DM1 Dynamite as a reference signal chain, I think....highly awesome combo with a pop filter on there.

What I really like about the Newton is that it cost an arm and a leg and it weighs as much as a truck. Other than that...desert island with just me and some headphones and 10 beautiful women who all sing and play ukelele....it would be difficult to pick the Newton. I've come to learn the outputs are limited as well.

As far as the mic search went....I ended up with a Telefunken TF29 (I think it was), a 102 and a 103...all here at the same time next to my NT1a. The TF was a beautiful work of art which made the 102 and 103 look like budget mics and therefore sound worse than they probably did. The TF has a whole separate powersource which was huge and required a special cable, which was off-putting as well. At that time I just couldn't justify the cost b/c the Rhode was not far off (and I dare say nearly on par), but they all sounded good after playing with spacing and gain, etc. Later an old band mate of mine insisted I save up for a U87....I eventually took a chance on the WA87 and found that it does indeed present some discernable sonic improvement v. the NT....and it looks like a badass unit up in here too. So I kept that and have grown to love it (omni mode). I didn't pay any mind to version 1 or 2. Someone wrote on here somewhere that at some point it's all just different versions of good, there's no better......like finding a new wife in your 40's.... I agree with that now. If I could I'd maybe have the Telefunken back here, but I'd not get the 29 (or whichever one had only cardioid pattern)...I'd get the step up with omni switch.

For my guitar, I ended up with the WA84 b.c I wanted a dedicated channel....I tested it against Shure options, and it was the one...then I got the omni cap for it and it's now def the one. My live practice chain is a 58/57 and my hP/tracking chain is 87/84.

Yep that's my story up to interfaces. And holy shit that was a huge decision tree that landed me wayyyyy over budget, but with a machine that is incredible. I started all this just to record myself so my kids would have my songs someday and now I'm starting to love the recording process alone. This dude is about to head out in the woods this weekend to try some M/S naturescape recording just for the heck of it. I want a shotgun mic now!! haha How fun is this!
 
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