New Computer for Newbie (Sounds Like A Sitcom)

[Ivorykeys]

Just want to get some opinions & recommendations on the following set-up that I'm planning to get based on the input from several previous posts. The key here is that I want a set-up to cut my teeth on since I'm new to the art, and will be using primarily virtual tracks and/or acoustic piano. Nothing needed capable of recording 24 tracks simultaneously with plug-ins. I'd REALLY like to get a laptop since I think I'd like to do some live-recording (at clubs/restaurants, etc...), but my budget is ~$1,200, so I may be limited to a tower set-up. I would consider a laptop with less capatility for the portability factor if I could get away with it.

I already have an ONYX 1220 mixer with the firewire option, the Tracktion software that comes with the firewire package, a hardware effects unit, a soon-to-be outboard compressor (x2), monitors, a 19" Monitor & a decent mic.

I'll be recording mostly 1-2 vocals with either acoustic piano, or sequenced back-up tracks from a workstation (FantomX) simultaneously. Let me know if this is overkill for my application, and, more importantly, what other periferals should I be looking at to incorporate into this system to make some decent recordings (do I need expensive video &/or soundcards [EMU 1820m soundcard and Matrox 440 dual video card], and the ONYX has preamps, so do I need the capability for additional 'add-ons'? I do not want to have this built & then find out I should have gotton additional firewires & I/O ports later:

ASUS P5B DELUXE/WiFi-AP INTEL 965 CHIPSET SERIAL ATA300 ATX FORM FACTOR 2xPCI-E(X16)/1xPCI-E(X1)/3xPCI/4xDDR2 W/SATA2 RAID,DUAL LAN(Gb),1394A,USB 2.0 & AUDIO (CPU TYPE:INTEL - SOCKET 775)
CORE 2 DUO E6300 1.86G (1066Mhz)

or

ASUS P5B DELUXE/WiFi-AP INTEL 965 CHIPSET SERIAL ATA300 ATX FORM FACTOR 2xPCI-E(X16)/1xPCI-E(X1)/3xPCI/4xDDR2 W/SATA2 RAID,DUAL LAN(Gb),1394A,USB 2.0 & AUDIO (CPU TYPE:INTEL - SOCKET 775)
CORE 2 DUO E6300 1.86G (1066Mhz)

Memory
2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 Dual-Channel (1GB x 2)

Video Card
Gigabyte GeForce 7600GS PCI-e x16 256

Seagate 7200.10 200GB SATA

Samsung 16x DVD+R Burner w/ 5x DVD RAM and LightScribe

430Watt SmartPower 2.0 (with case)

Windows XP Pro

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

 

[Ivorykeys]

Sorry, I doubled up on the motherboard (it was late). I meant

"or

GIGABYTE GA-965P-DQ6 INTEL 965 CHIPSET SERIAL ATA300 ATX FORM FACTOR 2xPCI-E(X16)/3xPCI-E(X1)/2xPCI/4xDDR2 W/SATA RAID,LAN(Gb),1394,USB 2.0 & AUDIO (CPU TYPE:INTEL - SOCKET 775)
CORE 2 DUO E6300 1.86G (1066Mhz) "

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

 

[BJW]

If your budget is $1200 for the computer, you should easily be able to get a laptop capable of what you want to do and more.

I'd look into Lenovo or HP (for Windows app. stuff), or maybe even a used macbook.

I've bought computers from www.cyberpowerpc.com with great results (basically, you "custom" order a computer and they assemble and ship it). They are very competitive with pricing, and their service is pretty good. You can put together a nice laptop from them for ~$1000.

As far as a tower goes - the spec's you listed will do just fine.

 

[brzilian]

Just want to get some opinions & recommendations on the following set-up that I'm planning to get based on the input from several previous posts. The key here is that I want a set-up to cut my teeth on since I'm new to the art, and will be using primarily virtual tracks and/or acoustic piano. Nothing needed capable of recording 24 tracks simultaneously with plug-ins. I'd REALLY like to get a laptop since I think I'd like to do some live-recording (at clubs/restaurants, etc...), but my budget is ~$1,200, so I may be limited to a tower set-up. I would consider a laptop with less capatility for the portability factor if I could get away with it.

I already have an ONYX 1220 mixer with the firewire option, the Tracktion software that comes with the firewire package, a hardware effects unit, a soon-to-be outboard compressor (x2), monitors, a 19" Monitor & a decent mic.

I'll be recording mostly 1-2 vocals with either acoustic piano, or sequenced back-up tracks from a workstation (FantomX) simultaneously. Let me know if this is overkill for my application, and, more importantly, what other periferals should I be looking at to incorporate into this system to make some decent recordings (do I need expensive video &/or soundcards [EMU 1820m soundcard and Matrox 440 dual video card], and the ONYX has preamps, so do I need the capability for additional 'add-ons'? I do not want to have this built & then find out I should have gotton additional firewires & I/O ports later:


Thanks,
Ivorykeys

If you are doing this for money (as in making money off your studio) and have no real computer knowledge, I would not recommend going the DIY route. If there are compatibility issues between the components you buy. YOU will have to troubleshoot it on your own time rather than just calling a 1-800 customer service number. Just buy a built system and be done with it. I hesitantly recommend Dell, but a Gateway or HP desktop would also work just fine.

If you have the Onyx with the Firewire card, there is no need for anther audio interface. The Onyx will be the audio interface.

An expensive video card would be a waste of money. Simply find a dualhead card you can afford.

 

[Ivorykeys]

New DAW Questions

brzilian,

Thanks for your thoughts on a sound card, that will just save me money if I do not need a high-end one. This would just be my hobby for now, to record my own performances. I do not see hanging out a shingle for recording services at this time, but your point is well taken, that if a computer manufacturer configures the computer, all should be compatable. I'm having a local computer builder configure the unit, so I will have local support if I need it. Either way, it will be much more economical than going through HP, Dell, etc....

BJW,

I was under the impression that I'd need to spend in the $2K range for a laptop to operate relatively quickly for my needs (i.e., 7200 speed), but if I can get one configured with enough slots, firewire & other I/O ports, as a decent DAW for my needs for ~$1,200, I'd probably go that route. I'll need to do some additional research as to what exactly I would be ordering to build the laptop, as the only research I did was relative to a tower PC. I looked at cyberpowerpc.com and it's all a bit Greek to me, & I would not want to guess as to laptop configuration. And my local computer builder would be happy to build me anything I'd want, but I would need the exact specs to do so. Any suggestions on the exact configuration of the laptop would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

 

[brzilian]

I spent $1200 on a Gateway laptop last December. It has an Athlon 64 processor, 1Gb of RAM and a 60Gb 4200 RPM disk. It works just fine with my Onyx 1220. I have yet to run into issue with the slower HD. I also have 2 external 7200 RPM drives that connect via USB 2.0 so I am covered if I ever have an issue.

I was just at BestBuy yesterday and Core 2 Duo laptops from Gateway can be bought for around the same price I paid last December.

I have switched over completely to a laptop when I bought this system and have no regrets.

 

[Ivorykeys]

brzilian,

What about periferals (if any), # of slots, sound card, video card, firewires, etc..., with the ONYX, do you find that you have enough capability for the different types of recording you do?

Did you need to customer order the laptop (i.e., have it built like you would a tower PC), or pretty much off the shelf, & from where?

What types of inputs - acoustic, vocal or electric instruments, virtual (midi) or otherwise, - do you record with your Mackie set-up? For the virtual instruments, do you assign each instrument to a different track on the ONYX, or do you stack them on 1 or 2 tracks?

The slower 4200 hard drive has not been a hassle for you, right? Do you use plug-ins for effects/compressor, etc..., or do you have outboard gear as well, like hardware reverb & compressor, and do you do record multiple tracks simultaneously (like at a live performance), or just one at a time.

Lastly, do you use the Tracktion software that came with the ONYX, and if so, do you like it compared to others you may have used?

Sorry for the 60 questions here, but you may have a very similar set-up to what I'm going to have, with the ONYX, etc..., and being new at this, I'm very interested if you would do anything differently in hind-sight.

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

 

[altitude909]

ASUS P5B DELUXE/WiFi-AP INTEL 965 CHIPSET SERIAL ATA300 ATX FORM FACTOR 2xPCI-E(X16)/1xPCI-E(X1)/3xPCI/4xDDR2 W/SATA2 RAID,DUAL LAN(Gb),1394A,USB 2.0 & AUDIO (CPU TYPE:INTEL - SOCKET 775)
CORE 2 DUO E6300 1.86G (1066Mhz)

Way too much. U dont need SLI graphicsI for a DAW(2 16x PCIe slots). Go for more 1x lanes since they will get use more than 2 x 16x. Get a bigger processer. Why get an expensive motherboard and get the cheapest processor you can buy for it?

2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 Dual-Channel (1GB x 2)

Good choice. Thats what I run now and ran in my old system.

Gigabyte GeForce 7600GS PCI-e x16 256

I just got this card for my new 2 day old system. Great value ($109 at newegg) and passive cooling so it makes no noise

Seagate 7200.10 200GB SATA

Get two. smaller ones if you cant afford it, size is not as important as having two physical hard drives

Samsung 16x DVD+R Burner w/ 5x DVD RAM and LightScribe

Should be fine. Does not really matter

430Watt SmartPower 2.0 (with case)

Probably crap. Go bigger and a better name. Look for brands that offer a 5 year warranty (PC power and cooling, seasonic, etc)

GIGABYTE GA-965P-DQ6

I ended up going with the DS3 which is the non-SLI version of this board. It really is a great MB, 6 SATA channels (4 on the ICH8 and 2 on the Gigabyte controller) 10 USB ports. Everything that I needed for $139. No firewire though (when the HELL is adaptec going to come out with a 1x firewire card?). Plus, the gigabyte SATA controller has hot swap so your hard drives can be changed without rebooting the system.

The E6600 is the way to go since has the 4mb cache (everything lower has only 2)

 

[BJW]

Hey Keys,

Here's what I would recommend for a laptop setup:

Find a stock laptop with a decent processor (Intel Core Duo 1.87 ghz or better) from HP or Lenovo or Dell - a big name manufacturer. Make sure it's got 512mb to 1gb of RAM, and DON'T upgrade the base model. You should be able to do this easily for under $1000. The hard drive and memory probably won't be exactly what you're looking for, but we'll take care of that in the next step.

Next, go to www.newegg.com and pick up another 1 GB of RAM that matches the computer you got - go with corsair or a decent brand. Also, buy an external hard drive - make sure its firewire, and make sure its a 7200 RPM drive with a 16 mb cache, around 200 gb or so. You can either buy a packaged external hard drive, or go the cheaper route and buy an internal hard drive and then an external 3.5" firewire hard drive enclosure. This shouldn't cost more than $200 or so, depending on what you get. You could probably do the whole setup for ~$1000, but I haven't priced everything out.

On the hard drive thing, you can kick it up a notch by going with an SATAII hard drive. You'll have to buy an enclosure that's SATAII -> SATAIIe, and you'll have to have an SATAII input on your laptop, which usually can be supplied with an ExpressCard (if your laptop has an ExpressCard slot). It's a bit more expensive, just because you've got to buy the expresscard, but the transfer rates are way faster than USB2.0 or FireWire. That might have all sounded a bit greek to you, but it's not too hard of a setup to get going, especially if you have a techy friend to help you out. Going SATAII is probably overkill unless you are recording a bunch of tracks at the sime time at a really high bitrate, but its an option. For most applications, a FireWire 400 (1394a) connection is plenty fast - FireWire 800 (1394b) is even better.

You have to be somewhat computer-literate when it comes to hardware to set this up, but adding a stick of RAM should be easy, and the external hard drive should basically be plug-and-play. If you aren't willing to open up a laptop, I'm sure you know somebody who could do it for you.

Good luck!

 

[brzilian]

What about periferals (if any), # of slots, sound card, video card, firewires, etc..., with the ONYX, do you find that you have enough capability for the different types of recording you do?

Not sure what you're asking.

Did you need to customer order the laptop (i.e., have it built like you would a tower PC), or pretty much off the shelf, & from where?

Mine was a model they had in stock. No custom specs. Bought it at BestBuy.

What types of inputs - acoustic, vocal or electric instruments, virtual (midi) or otherwise, - do you record with your Mackie set-up? For the virtual instruments, do you assign each instrument to a different track on the ONYX, or do you stack them on 1 or 2 tracks?

I run my 3 synths (Roland D-50, XP30 and Yamaha Motif) into the 1220 on separate channels. I also make extensive use of softsynths (FM7, Korg Legacy Collection - Digital Edition). When you work with softsynths, all mixing is done in software - you don't assign them to tracks on the Onyx.

The slower 4200 hard drive has not been a hassle for you, right? Do you use plug-ins for effects/compressor, etc..., or do you have outboard gear as well, like hardware reverb & compressor, and do you do record multiple tracks simultaneously (like at a live performance), or just one at a time.

All my effects are VST and DirectX plugins. When I capture my external synths as audio tracks, I record them in one take on multiple inputs rather than one at a time - that is the whole point of using a multi-input audio interface.

Lastly, do you use the Tracktion software that came with the ONYX, and if so, do you like it compared to others you may have used?

Nope. I use Sonar Home Studio, Cubase SE and Cakewalk Project 5.

I also use this laptop for DV work and the 4200 RPM drive handles that just fine. DV via Firewire eats up a lot more bandwith than several tracks of 24/96 audio.

 

[brzilian]

Hey Keys,

Here's what I would recommend for a laptop setup:

Find a stock laptop with a decent processor (Intel Core Duo 1.87 ghz or better) from HP or Lenovo or Dell - a big name manufacturer. Make sure it's got 512mb to 1gb of RAM, and DON'T upgrade the base model. You should be able to do this easily for under $1000. The hard drive and memory probably won't be exactly what you're looking for, but we'll take care of that in the next step.

Next, go to www.newegg.com and pick up another 1 GB of RAM that matches the computer you got - go with corsair or a decent brand. Also, buy an external hard drive - make sure its firewire, and make sure its a 7200 RPM drive with a 16 mb cache, around 200 gb or so. You can either buy a packaged external hard drive, or go the cheaper route and buy an internal hard drive and then an external 3.5" firewire hard drive enclosure. This shouldn't cost more than $200 or so, depending on what you get. You could probably do the whole setup for ~$1000, but I haven't priced everything out.

On the hard drive thing, you can kick it up a notch by going with an SATAII hard drive. You'll have to buy an enclosure that's SATAII -> SATAIIe, and you'll have to have an SATAII input on your laptop, which usually can be supplied with an ExpressCard (if your laptop has an ExpressCard slot). It's a bit more expensive, just because you've got to buy the expresscard, but the transfer rates are way faster than USB2.0 or FireWire. That might have all sounded a bit greek to you, but it's not too hard of a setup to get going, especially if you have a techy friend to help you out. Going SATAII is probably overkill unless you are recording a bunch of tracks at the sime time at a really high bitrate, but its an option. For most applications, a FireWire 400 (1394a) connection is plenty fast - FireWire 800 (1394b) is even better.

You have to be somewhat computer-literate when it comes to hardware to set this up, but adding a stick of RAM should be easy, and the external hard drive should basically be plug-and-play. If you aren't willing to open up a laptop, I'm sure you know somebody who could do it for you.

Good luck!

Dell would not be a wise choice. Issues with Firewire devices connected to Dell laptops are well documented on this site. It is a compatibility problem with the Intel motherboard chipsets Dell uses so a PC-Card Firewire interface will not fix the problem.

 

[BJW]

OK, I did some looking for you! (i'm bored this afternoon at work)

Notebook Computer:
HP Compaq nx6310 - $848.99
Intel Duo-Core 1.66 ghz processor
512 MB RAM
60 GB 5400 RPM hdd

More RAM:
1 GB Crucial stick - $133.99
Good RAM here - my philosophy is to not go cheap on RAM. Also, adding more ram on this laptop is essential. The integrated graphics chip uses shared RAM from the system, up to 128 MB. The more RAM the better, especially with graphics cards using shared ram.

External Hard Drive setup:
Internal Hard Drive - Maxtor 250 GB hdd, 7200 RPM, 16 mb cache - $74.99
FireWire/USB2.0 Hard Drive Enclosure - can go USB 2.0 or FireWire (firewire is better). - $39.99

Total Spec's:
Intel Duo-Core 1.66 ghz
60 GB internal 5400 RPM hdd
250 GB external 7200 RPM hdd
1.5 GB DDR2 RAM

Total Price: $1097.96

An alternative to the above external hard drive is this:
Western Digital External Hard Drive - 250 gb, 7200 RPM, 16 mb cache - $199.99. This one doesn't require any assembly, but I'm a fan of internal hard drives in external enclosures. That way you can put any internal drive in it (like from an older desktop or something) and plug it in to your computer.

Now, you can probably get a bit more bang-for-your-buck if you shop around a lot, but I got a pretty decent recording laptop going for ~$1100 in about 10 minutes. Better deals are out there.

You'd probably want somebody to confirm that the crucial RAM stick will in fact work with that specific notebook, but I think it's the right kind.

Another thing to note - I'm not sure if the Mackie allows you to daisy-chain firewire devices. What I mean is, the mackie will hook up to the laptop firewire connection, but then the firewire hard drive should be able to hook up to the mackie. If the Mackie won't let you hook up another firewire device to it, you're in trouble when you're recording to your firewire hard drive. Hopefully that makes sense. . .

EDIT: OK, I just checked - the Mackie Firewire I/O card (i'm assuming you've got that, since you mentioned firewire option) does allow you to hook up your external hard drive to it. So, you'd plug the mackie into the computer, and the hard drive into the mackie. Then you'd record to the external hard drive.

 

[BJW]

Dell would not be a wise choice. Issues with Firewire devices connected to Dell laptops are well documented on this site. It is a compatibility problem with the Intel motherboard chipsets Dell uses so a PC-Card Firewire interface will not fix the problem.

Wow, didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

 

[Ivorykeys]

altitude909,

Thanks for your input. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not have a firewire configured. I'm interfacing the computer with the Mackie 1202 with the firewire I/O.

BJW,

Appreciate the configuration recommendation & the boredom factor at work. That's usually when my best & most creative thinking occurs. It appears that this would fit the bill for my needs. As you mentioned, I'd want to confirm that all of the parts (RAM, etc..) are compatible.

Another issue came up as this thread developed. Do you have any opinion or thoughts about maybe getting a hard-disk recorder, or something more portable, and then transferring to a home-based PC (i.e., the one we are configuring on this thread)? I believe the budget issue gets in the way. I've read that some bands record to, say, a minidisk, or an Alesis ADAT (HD2424?), and then transfer & edit the tracks to a PC in the studio. I've got to think that's the ticket, but, oh yea, that budget thing comes up again. I'd hate to buy a real cheap HD recorder & real cheap computer just to keep within a budget, only to regret it later. I'd rather just save up & get the right thing, within $ reason. That's why the laptop idea came up as this thread developed & inevitable aspect of live-recording came into play, which may kill 2 birds.... but, just consider for a minute, maybe a lower level PC for home-based recording & editing may be worth considering in combination with a lower level hard-disk recorder for the field (if there is such a thing). Just thinking out loud here, and if I increase the budget to $1,500(!), do you think that is the better way to go?

Ivorykeys

 

[ssscientist]

Just thinking out loud here, and if I increase the budget to $1,500(!), do you think that is the better way to go?

Yes.

We've posted back and forth about this before.

I recommend one of these and a refurbished desktop from here.

That's my setup - except I've got the older version of the Yamaha, the AW16g.

It's proved to be both reliable and flexible with the addition of a small mixer for additional inputs. The AW1600 has eight XLR inputs, can track @ 24 bit depth --- only 8 tracks though --- and has a USB 2.0 port for quick data transfer. It's a natural match, and if a refurbished PC doesn't strike you as fancy enough or dependable enough or spendy enough, I would remind you that it's got a big advantage over a new one --- it's been thru the factory twice...

.

 

[altitude909]

but you do not have a firewire configured. I'm interfacing the computer with the Mackie 1202 with the firewire I/O.

This is true. I dont have any use for firewire atm but if I did, I would just buy an Adaptec adapter. They dont have 1x ones yet (at least adaptec doesn't) but the DS3 has 3 pci slots so i can go either way. I would much rather go with an adaptec then an OEM one anyway

 

[Ivorykeys]

ssscientist,

Isn't it funny how these things work. We've gone full circle back to your original recommendation. But look how much I've learned (& maybe others as well) & maybe someday I'll be able to answer a question or 2 for some Newbie out there.

I think I'll be taking your advice & going with the hard disk recorder first, use that for awhile, and then go with a computer like the one we configured on this post, for ease of editing and home recording. I like the idea of the stability & portability of the hard disk recorder, and I see myself recording gigs now sooner than later. I must admit, I would agree that I like the tower-based PC idea rather than the laptop, especially if I acquire the hard disk recorder which answers the portability issue. Much like other applications, it appears that the tower-based PC (vs. the laptop) will be more powerful (for the same $) & less prone to obsolesence, relatively speaking. But we'll see in a month or 2 when I'm ready. Both viable options for home recording.

Thanks very much for your assistance & to all who took the time & effort to respond to this thread.

Ivorykeys