Neumann u89ai or TLM193

[bwindsor]

Neumann u87ai or TLM193

Trying not to ask the "same old" question we've heard a million times, but...

I've decided it's time to "add" a Neumann to the studio...before you say it, I'm aware there are probably "lots" of bettter mics for the $, but I've succumbed to the "this is what the clients continually ask for" scenario, and I've been burned a few times when they wouldn't listen to me when I've said "this is as good or bettter", so it's time to get out the cash.
I have a Microtech Gefell M930 that I love and use "a lot" on vocals, as well as a Rode NTV that I really like on some clients, but what I'm really looking for is which of the above Neumann's would give me the best value as an "all-rounder", primarily for lead vocal duties...I'll keep the other mics around anyway, so the Neumann doesn't have to work for everybody (it won't, I know) but I'd like to get some opinions before I "borrow" these for a tryout, in case I'm barking up the wrong tree....I'd love to hear from either actual owners of the above mics (either or both) as well as those who are very familiar with the above for pros and cons "from the real world"...no offense, but I'm not interested in hearing about how the old Neumann's blow away the new, etc... as I've stated above, I'm becoming more client driven, so I've got to play the hand I'm given....other Neumann's could be suggested, I just thought the above we're a little more "neutral" so better for general duties...but I've been wrong before, so let me know if you can, and much appreciated!

BW

 

[sdelsolray]

Given that you already have the Gefell and Rode for vocal duties, and given that you want the Neumann primarily for vocal duties, I'd suggest the TLM 193. It's less expensive than the U89 and you wouldn't need the multi-patterns the U89 has to offer. The 193 would compliment your Gefell and Rode. A U87 would be more similar to the 930 than a 193/89 would.

Another suggestion would be a used TLM170. Nice mic, very nice.

 

[BigRay]

The multi patterns of the u89 are a benefit, and at some point you would use all of them, I am fairly certain. Of the two you mentioned, I would suggest the u89...but another neumann that In my opinion would blow them both away is a SPAudio Modded or Klaus Heyne Modded u87. Modded U87s are in a lot of the top studios and are legendary in the Pro Audio realm. The u87 when modded rivals ANY microphone. Now, I have owned the u89 and the u87...The u89 was solid. Boring, but solid. U87, same deal...a little less boring, but sounded CONSISTENTLY good on any and everything..I also played with a SPAudio modded u87!! WOW!
If you need contact info(for the Mic Modders) or where to get a good price on the mic..PM me.
or email me at raytheapostle@yahoo.com good luck man..my .......000002 cents

-teddy

Given that you already have the Gefell and Rode for vocal duties, and given that you want the Neumann primarily for vocal duties, I'd suggest the TLM 193. It's less expensive than the U89 and you wouldn't need the multi-patterns the U89 has to offer. The 193 would compliment your Gefell and Rode. A U87 would be more similar to the 930 than a 193/89 would.

Another suggestion would be a used TLM170. Nice mic, very nice.

 

[xstatic]

Have considered saving a little more and looking into a M149? A used M149 should be able to be had for about the same price as a new TLM193 and then you would truly have a Neumann that really differentiated itself from the mics you already own. As far as the mods go, there are MANY more stock Neumann's in pro studios than modded ones. Personally, I would not be thinking about mods. I would get the mic that gets you closest to what you are looking for, and then later maybe have it modded so that it better fits your specific needs (which can't really be decided until you have some experience with the stock mic first).

 

[BigRay]

I dont recall saying there were more modded mics in studios than stock ones, if you are somehow responding to what I said, I just said that there are many modu87s in use in Pro Audio. The M149 is a good choice indeed but at almost 5500 new...I cant imagine it going for near what a tlm193 or u89 goes for....maybe 3,000 used? But hey if youve got the dough the 149 is a great choice.I think because of the nature/coloration of tubes it wont be as versatile as the u87, but for vocals it should sound great. if you arent dead set on neumann, I think the MG um900 would be a little more slick than the m149...but definitely more money....Good luck.

Have considered saving a little more and looking into a M149? A used M149 should be able to be had for about the same price as a new TLM193 and then you would truly have a Neumann that really differentiated itself from the mics you already own. As far as the mods go, there are MANY more stock Neumann's in pro studios than modded ones. Personally, I would not be thinking about mods. I would get the mic that gets you closest to what you are looking for, and then later maybe have it modded so that it better fits your specific needs (which can't really be decided until you have some experience with the stock mic first).

 

[bwindsor]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far....I should point out that I "might" not keep my Rode NTV if I go ahead with this, so that could obviously impact which mic would better cover my needs...anyway, I'm "leaning" toward the U87ai, just don't want something I "may" already have (sort of) with the M930...any thoughts on this?

Thanks again, my ears are open (although some might say "damaged" slightly )

BW

 

[BigRay]

I dont think youd find them to be the same at all..other than the fact that they are both LD mics..The u87 because of its 3 patterns is better as an "all arounder"(in fact many studios that I have seen, and performed in used it on a lot of different applications). I would say that the u87 is probably on a lot of peoples top 10 lists. My suggestion is to go for it, I think you will be very pleased.

Teddy

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far....I should point out that I "might" not keep my Rode NTV if I go ahead with this, so that could obviously impact which mic would better cover my needs...anyway, I'm "leaning" toward the U87ai, just don't want something I "may" already have (sort of) with the M930...any thoughts on this?

Thanks again, my ears are open (although some might say "damaged" slightly )

BW

 

[xstatic]

First off, I did get my prices confused a bit. I was thinking of the new price for a TLM127, not a 193. The TLM 127's go for nearly $2000 new. I have seen some M149's recently for $2300 or so. I even saw a pair sell for $4000. However, the M149 can be had new for $4400 or less and not actually $5500, that would be closer to an M150. As far as the tubes go, that would not really say that they would affect the nature/coloration in any way to make it less versatile. Design of a mic in general has much more to do with that than the fact that it has a tube. Thats not to say that a U87 or U89 may not be a more "versatile" mic, just that they are designed differently. Actually, the M149 has 9 polar patterns which would definately give the mic a few different sonic possibilities through pattern changing and mic placement.

when you say..."but another neumann that In my opinion would blow them both away is a SPAudio Modded or Klaus Heyne Modded u87. Modded U87s are in a lot of the top studios and are legendary in the Pro Audio realm. The u87 when modded rivals ANY microphone"... you can't blame me for maybe reading a little more into that statement than you meant. Especially after the other thread concerning mic mods. My point is that the majority of high end mic owners buy a mic for what it does, and not what it could do after modding. Most people leave their mics stock. If I want the sound of a modded U87, there are probably a dozen other mics on the market nowadays that already come close to whatever that modded sound is and probably cost considerably less. If however I already owned a U87, was getting tired of it (bored with it as I tend to do after a while), then I think modding would be an excellent candidate. But new, thats a different story. New I would prefer to buy a midpriced mic ($1000 range) and dump 7 or 8 hundred into making it a completely different mic.

All that said, a U87 would be an excellent purchase for a general all around mic. Being a studio owner, I do understand that the Neumann name alone may bring in enough business to counter the fact that you have to pay more for the Neumann name. Plus, they are tried and true, and very durable (built well). Sure there are other better values out there if you just compare price to sound quality, but Neumann does bring some other factors in that some of us can benefit from where others might not. After reading from the original post, I would still be tempted to look into something like the M149 (if budget were to allow) as opposed to the 193 or U87/89. Any of the mics in this thread will be great mics, but as an engineer I would prefer the M149 for the "magic" factor. The others will almost always sound pretty good on any source, but maybe not appreciably different than what is already owned and available. The M149 on the other hand may lose a couple of shootouts on some different sources (will never sound bad though), but there is a good chance that on many vocalists, acoustics etc... that it will just kill the other options available. Plus, you can tell your clients that you have a Neumann tube mic with 9 patterns available. A lot of musicians know just enough about recording to be dangerous, and not in a good way. An m149 will be one of the most impressive pieces (to THOSE clients) that you could pull out. Add an Avalon 737 to that and those people will think that you have the BEST setup that money can buy. I know that it isn't right, but it is a fact of life. The Hollywood affect is very real to a lot of people and it automatically makes those people happier and easier to deal with. Thats one of the things I love about having a 10 foot console with over 1000 knobs. Almost every client that walks in automatically trusts my judgement a little more about all the decisions down the road and they tend to regurgitate stuff they read in Keyboard magazine about recording just a little less. That translates to piece of mind for me and more business (not to mention they don't complain as much about price either when they see equipment that impresses them).

Good luck

 

[BigRay]

Good post man.Very informative.. I will admit that I have worked in probably a 100 studios it seems like, but 99% of those were as a performer. I have only been involved in the recording aspect for a couple years or so. I have worked with tons of microphones though..and the u87 seems to be a mic that most people use as their "go to" microphone..In these years as a performer I have also become somewhat of a microphone geek,,always lurking at prosoundweb.com, neumann forums, AKG forums, MG sites..and when I started building my own recording space(my wife and I are both professional musicians)..I tried out A LOT of mic pres and mics..again, the u87 (and the 149/150) were consistently reccomended (the u89 was only mentioned once or twice) as was the at4050, gefell um70, and others. I also had the great opportunity to use a u87 and a modded u87 ....which is where I got my passion for the mods from..the difference was astounding.. When I buy a mic, I absolutely buy a microphone for the mod factor rather than the original sound. backwards I know..but ever since I heard that tweaked u87, ive been chasing that sound and havent found it yet in anything BUT a tweaked u87.
I have a different perspective than a lot of you veteran studio guys I guess. The singer/performer(especially the classical folks I have found) are indeed all about name...big name gear......sad really, because in some circumstances the lower cost stuff would perhaps perform better on specific tasks..but that is just the way it is. As a singer/guitarist..the one mic I have stood in front more than any other in studios is the u87..